Ash vs Evil Dead S01E04: Brujo Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Joem1k]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E04: Brujo Discussion [SPOILERS]

Spoiler

here's the promotional photos for episode 5

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4713110/mediaindex?ref_=tt_pv_mi_sm

looks like Keligos is gonna be taking full advantage of pablo's crush for kelly...

 

[MaidOfKandar]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E04: Brujo Discussion [SPOILERS]

Frog brings up another good point I hadn't made, but kept thinking about during the episode (and previous episodes) - one of my absolute favorite things about the films is Bruce's expressiveness. All of those wonderful faces were really one of (if not THE) main source of my entertainment, and I keep wanting to see some of that return, but so far haven't really beeing seeing the expressions that scream "Ash" to me. Moreso just Bruce's standard half-frowny-ness, or that candid look he has where he raises both eyebrows before saying something sardonic.

Anyone else notice that absence, or is it just me?

I think what a lot of you are catching is that the Ash/Bruce divide in the series is very, very low.  I think the closest he got to feeling like Ash to me was when Eligos was menacing Ash and he had to look properly scared.

In canon, Ash is a lot of things: he's cranky and authoritative; he's stubborn and traumatized; he has a nurturing side that comes out with Scott and Cheryl; he's so in love with Linda he loses his mind when he has to kill her and he leads an entire army of peasants he loathes because they tried to kill him in battle because he's tired of the Nec kicking him in the balls.  Canon Ash is much more serious - the humor in AOD comes from the fact that he takes himself so damn seriously and then gets literally slapped across the face with a skeleton hand and from the cool/ridiculous one-liners Sam gives him.

The problem with AvED Ash is that he's Bruce in full Bob Hope mode with only occasional flashes of the Ash personality we get in canon (and yeah, Sam Raimi, there is an actual Ash personality there in the movies); he's smirking and winking at us too much, and he's too smugly silly - and sometimes too much of a jerk to root for.  It also feels like they're striving too hard with every episode to try to stuff "awesome" one-liners into his mouth (the only one that's stuck out for me so far is "Whatever shows Up Blows Up") and make everything that comes from him golden or classic.  To be honest, Pablo is way funnier and more likable than Ash so far.

The on-the-surface stuff is apparently completely intentional on their parts.  Bruce deliberately didn't want to delve deeper into who Ash is, which is why we have what we have.  And yeah, it's Evil Dead, it's supposed to be jokey as hell and violent as all get-out, but when you're doing a longer-format series than an hour and a half movie you actually need these deeper character moments or the surface bs stands out even more glaringly.  The closest we're ever probably going to get is the Jacksonville stuff.

Aw, Guys! I wish you were loving the show as much as me! ( The only changes I'd make are cosmetic) But yeah, I agree that the best seems yet to come.

If it helps, I like the show on and off.  The problem is i can't consistently praise it.  I'm not even trying to crankily curmudgeon my way through the season!

---

EP5 related stuff.

Spoiler

Keligos is gonna be quite the manipulating b*tch in this episode, and ash seems like he's been branded as the one whose been possessed.

 [video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBFVLSEVhfc[/video]

and i found this gif with Keligos suggesting her and pablo have a drink (uh-oh).

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CUiGT-BUAAAPGpX.mp4

Overall i think this episode is going to be very interesting as pablo and his uncle are basically the only ones who can get the demon out of kelly though i bet it's gonna be a bit before they notice this , while ash is probably gonna be gagged and held against his will thanks to Keligos. But what still get's me is what is this new side of ash are we gonna see in this episode ?

Spoiler

I can't understand one line in that clip. "There is a ??? the demon could be festering." Did anybody understand that? Thanks in advance.

Spoiler

@Hurley - he says "there is a lump in the brain where such demons can be festering."

 

[Joem1k]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E04: Brujo Discussion [SPOILERS]

Just noticed something from the ash life flashing before his eyes montage, at the very beginning of it there was a subtle hint in one shot of old stock footage showing a little black haired kid being pushed to the ground by a much taller kid. I'm wondering if they weren't implying from that one shot of footage that ash was bullied throughout his childhood. Minor detail but interesting none the less if that is true

 

[MaidOfKandar]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E04: Brujo Discussion [SPOILERS]

Man, I can picture that easily. When i buy the DVD later I need to step frame through it

 

[chainsaw_master]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E04: Brujo Discussion [SPOILERS]

It's true that most of the writers are from Workaholics and other small shows and so they are not as experienced as other TV writers would be. And I think that though they are on the right track, they need to find themselves a bit. For example it troubles me that the character of Ash varies a great deal. He can be an experienced Evil Dead hunter that knows from the start that Kelly's mom is a Deadite, but when the script in the next episode demands summoning a demon, Ash is suddenly a complete idiot that want's to "fix the reading from the book by reading from the book" (yeah, Ash is stupid, but not as stupid as to make the same mistake several times).

But this is just one example of how the writers I think are going the right way, but they need more practice and they need to know what this show is (for example that not every time Ash opens his mouth, he must crack some half-baked joke - this for me was most noticeable in the fourth episode). So I agree with Maid that the show may kick a lot more ass in the second half of the season where everybody will kinda "know what they are doing" a bit more. This show is fantastic, for me it really is, but I still see it's a bit ruff around the edges, like a lot of shows in their first season are. But the general path this show follows is the right one. And that's what matters.

To be fair, in Evil Dead 2 Know by does say their salvation was within the pages of the book, and despite the popular opinion of hating the reboot and wanting to keep it separate from Ash's world (which, too bad, too sad the worlds are gonna merge eventually anyway) the lady at the beginning of the film (who is also Vivian in the first ep) said "only the evil book can undo what the evil book has done". Seems like the same rule applies to the show.

---

Frog brings up another good point I hadn't made, but kept thinking about during the episode (and previous episodes) - one of my absolute favorite things about the films is Bruce's expressiveness. All of those wonderful faces were really one of (if not THE) main source of my entertainment, and I keep wanting to see some of that return, but so far haven't really beeing seeing the expressions that scream "Ash" to me. Moreso just Bruce's standard half-frowny-ness, or that candid look he has where he raises both eyebrows before saying something sardonic.

Anyone else notice that absence, or is it just me?

I think what a lot of you are catching is that the Ash/Bruce divide in the series is very, very low.  I think the closest he got to feeling like Ash to me was when Eligos was menacing Ash and he had to look properly scared.

In canon, Ash is a lot of things: he's cranky and authoritative; he's stubborn and traumatized; he has a nurturing side that comes out with Scott and Cheryl; he's so in love with Linda he loses his mind when he has to kill her and he leads an entire army of peasants he loathes because they tried to kill him in battle because he's tired of the Nec kicking him in the balls.  Canon Ash is much more serious - the humor in AOD comes from the fact that he takes himself so damn seriously and then gets literally slapped across the face with a skeleton hand and from the cool/ridiculous one-liners Sam gives him.

The problem with AvED Ash is that he's Bruce in full Bob Hope mode with only occasional flashes of the Ash personality we get in canon (and yeah, Sam Raimi, there is an actual Ash personality there in the movies); he's smirking and winking at us too much, and he's too smugly silly - and sometimes too much of a jerk to root for.  It also feels like they're striving too hard with every episode to try to stuff "awesome" one-liners into his mouth (the only one that's stuck out for me so far is "Whatever shows Up Blows Up") and make everything that comes from him golden or classic.  To be honest, Pablo is way funnier and more likable than Ash so far.

The on-the-surface stuff is apparently completely intentional on their parts.  Bruce deliberately didn't want to delve deeper into who Ash is, which is why we have what we have.  And yeah, it's Evil Dead, it's supposed to be jokey as hell and violent as all get-out, but when you're doing a longer-format series than an hour and a half movie you actually need these deeper character moments or the surface bs stands out even more glaringly.  The closest we're ever probably going to get is the Jacksonville stuff.

I can't understand how someone can love AoD, but think Ash in AvED is completely out of character. 

AvED Ash is a natural progression of AoD Ash. Both versions are VERY different from Ash as he was in TED and ED2 wwhile still retaining SOME traits of his character from those first two films.

BBuce is hardly anything like Ash. If anything Bruce MILDLY taps into the character at cons Mai lyrics during panels, but overall, Bruce is hardly anything like Ash.

 

[MaidOfKandar]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E04: Brujo Discussion [SPOILERS]

It's true that most of the writers are from Workaholics and other small shows and so they are not as experienced as other TV writers would be. And I think that though they are on the right track, they need to find themselves a bit. For example it troubles me that the character of Ash varies a great deal. He can be an experienced Evil Dead hunter that knows from the start that Kelly's mom is a Deadite, but when the script in the next episode demands summoning a demon, Ash is suddenly a complete idiot that want's to "fix the reading from the book by reading from the book" (yeah, Ash is stupid, but not as stupid as to make the same mistake several times).

But this is just one example of how the writers I think are going the right way, but they need more practice and they need to know what this show is (for example that not every time Ash opens his mouth, he must crack some half-baked joke - this for me was most noticeable in the fourth episode). So I agree with Maid that the show may kick a lot more ass in the second half of the season where everybody will kinda "know what they are doing" a bit more. This show is fantastic, for me it really is, but I still see it's a bit ruff around the edges, like a lot of shows in their first season are. But the general path this show follows is the right one. And that's what matters.

To be fair, in Evil Dead 2 Know by does say their salvation was within the pages of the book, and despite the popular opinion of hating the reboot and wanting to keep it separate from Ash's world (which, too bad, too sad the worlds are gonna merge eventually anyway) the lady at the beginning of the film (who is also Vivian in the first ep) said "only the evil book can undo what the evil book has done". Seems like the same rule applies to the show.

---

Frog brings up another good point I hadn't made, but kept thinking about during the episode (and previous episodes) - one of my absolute favorite things about the films is Bruce's expressiveness. All of those wonderful faces were really one of (if not THE) main source of my entertainment, and I keep wanting to see some of that return, but so far haven't really beeing seeing the expressions that scream "Ash" to me. Moreso just Bruce's standard half-frowny-ness, or that candid look he has where he raises both eyebrows before saying something sardonic.

Anyone else notice that absence, or is it just me?

I think what a lot of you are catching is that the Ash/Bruce divide in the series is very, very low.  I think the closest he got to feeling like Ash to me was when Eligos was menacing Ash and he had to look properly scared.

In canon, Ash is a lot of things: he's cranky and authoritative; he's stubborn and traumatized; he has a nurturing side that comes out with Scott and Cheryl; he's so in love with Linda he loses his mind when he has to kill her and he leads an entire army of peasants he loathes because they tried to kill him in battle because he's tired of the Nec kicking him in the balls.  Canon Ash is much more serious - the humor in AOD comes from the fact that he takes himself so damn seriously and then gets literally slapped across the face with a skeleton hand and from the cool/ridiculous one-liners Sam gives him.

The problem with AvED Ash is that he's Bruce in full Bob Hope mode with only occasional flashes of the Ash personality we get in canon (and yeah, Sam Raimi, there is an actual Ash personality there in the movies); he's smirking and winking at us too much, and he's too smugly silly - and sometimes too much of a jerk to root for.  It also feels like they're striving too hard with every episode to try to stuff "awesome" one-liners into his mouth (the only one that's stuck out for me so far is "Whatever shows Up Blows Up") and make everything that comes from him golden or classic.  To be honest, Pablo is way funnier and more likable than Ash so far.

The on-the-surface stuff is apparently completely intentional on their parts.  Bruce deliberately didn't want to delve deeper into who Ash is, which is why we have what we have.  And yeah, it's Evil Dead, it's supposed to be jokey as hell and violent as all get-out, but when you're doing a longer-format series than an hour and a half movie you actually need these deeper character moments or the surface bs stands out even more glaringly.  The closest we're ever probably going to get is the Jacksonville stuff.

I can't understand how someone can love AoD, but think Ash in AvED is completely out of character. 

AvED Ash is a natural progression of AoD Ash. Both versions are VERY different from Ash as he was in TED and ED2 wwhile still retaining SOME traits of his character from those first two films.

BBuce is hardly anything like Ash. If anything Bruce MILDLY taps into the character at cons Mai lyrics during panels, but overall, Bruce is hardly anything like Ash.

---

Because Ash in AOD is an actually different beast, for the reasons I outlined above.  I disagree with that POV, but to each their own.  

Bruce used to say that, but he's become fond of saying Ash is "him on a bad day". I'm also referring to his "on" persona, the one he puts on at conventions, which has leaked into his onscreen persona (see: Jack of all Trades, MNIB).  Even Sam Raimi said in an interview during this junket that there isn't a Bruce anymore, but a "Brash", which I found kind of sad.

Also it's not entirely inevitable that the two universes will meet, though I don't doubt it might happen, probably after the show ends.   The idea might be unpopular enough for them not to do it tho.

 

[Mardeadite]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E04: Brujo Discussion [SPOILERS]

I saw this episode a bit earlier today.

I enjoyed it a lot. I think the series been consistently good actually. I'm kinda sad most of you are disappointed.

I do wish Ash was more like his film character too. That wasn't all the same from film to film, but it worked from a progression (or should that be 'degression') point of view.

I was a bit puzzled as to what that cloud was supposed to be. I guess that is their depiction of the Evil force, but I'd rather they hadn't shown it. It's clear from the films that people see something, or at least sense something, but I think it is more effective left up to the imagination. Instead of seeing the cloud stop at the Brujo's gate (which to be fair, was a cool effect) I would have much preferred the camera POV zooming up to the gate, move side to side as it takes in the talismans then back away fast. Much like that scene in ED2 when it chases Ash through the cabin knocking down doors then... loses him. Then it back out into the woods, really fast. (Simply done with a camera, etc, but I LOVE that scene.)

I liked seeing the force messing with the car though. That was really consistent with ED 2 where the force takes control of things in the cabin.

Maybe it's just the dust cloud in it's wake that we were seeing, but I don't think that was the intention. It was way too thick and there was a greenish tint...

Incidentally, I think this is the first time I saw lovely green scenery which screamed NEW ZEALAND! That being said, I'm sure that's hindsight talking. I'm sure there are places in the States like that. There sure are in in England.

There wasn't much I disliked about this episode apart from the cloud force thing. I did wonder that Ash's hand had not decomposed more, but that could just put down to the Evil preserving it. Deadites sometimes get a decomposed look (even more so in the first film where deadites basically look like zombies. ) which happens faster than normal, but I guess it can work the other way too.

Oh, I think I found a small continuity error. Kelly said to Pablo "It's the same thing that attacked us at Value Stop!"

Now as far as I remember, it was only Ash who was attacked at Value Stop, and that was by a dolly.
(Incidentally, the doll animation affects seemed VASTLY improved in this episode to the first. She looked almost real to my eyes, rather than that strange gauzy look in the first episode.)

I guess Kelly was referring to that point when the force rushed up to them as they drove away on the bike (said force ending up in the manager). You could tell from their reactions that they could see or at least sense something, but it never actually managed, or tried hard, to attack them.

I put Ruby's ability to track Ash down to three things. The hand (but only recently as it has been dormant, no doubt triggered by Ash and tatoo lady reading from the book), possibly that sixth sense thing she depicts, and mostly her own detective skills.

Sure Ash would have been long gone by the time she reached the cabin, but what stuff did he leave behind, apart from his mind?

She could have backtracked to the home town (I'm not sure how close to the cabin it was, but I get the impression it was quite a drive but still in the same state) and asked questions of friends and colleagues of Ash and his mates about who visited the cabin. Finding the right places and the right people to ask could have taken a long time, but the 30 odd years will account for that.

Interesting to see that my theory concerning the nature of spells, and Kelly sending the demon back to hell turned out to be wrong. I'm kinda glad I was wrong, although the moment Kelly stated to get ill I guessed what had happened. Well, and seeing spoilers probably aided in that regard, but I would have suspected that she would become a deadite of some kind.

The fact people can get possessed then have the demon exorcised raises interesting questions concerning the morality of killing them doesn't it? My own idea is that, once the person is actually physically dead, their own spirit is gone, imprisoned in some kind of hell (judging by the spirit of Knowby's appearance in ED2). So there completely under the demon's control. So they're fair game as far as killing is concerned.

In the case of living possessed people like Ash in ED2, Sheelagh in AoD and Kelly in this episode, the spirit can be cast out and they'll get better. (Although in Shelagh's case, I remember her falling off of castle battlements, so I'm not sure how she recovered from that.)

I guess if you're being attacked, it's either kill or be killed, regardless of whether the demon could be exorcised, but it makes me wonder if they should try to spend more time incapacitating the not-so-dead deadites and attempting to cast out the spirit. But that would make for quite a boring show, wouldn't it.... hee hee.

I started watching the Host, but then my family came home and joined me in that room. Waiting for Her Nibs to leave and go to bed so I can watch the rest. ;-)

While typing more above, she left. Good. Time to watch the rest....

 

[Kain]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E04: Brujo Discussion [SPOILERS]

Well we saw the Evil Force in the form of fog in Evil Dead 1 & 2. So why not Ash vs Evil Dead?

 

[Mardeadite]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E04: Brujo Discussion [SPOILERS]

That rings a bell actually. Particulary at the start of ED2 when the sun rises and the mist slides away...

It wasn't really my impression that it looked like that when rushing around from camera POV (not that you could see it being a POV shot, anyway, just an impression I guess). That big thick bank of greenish fog seemed a bit much though.

That other fog at least looked natural, even if it's movements were not. Consistent with the Evil manipulating the world around, like the trees, etc.

 

[MaidOfKandar]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E04: Brujo Discussion [SPOILERS]

I guess Kelly was referring to that point when the force rushed up to them as they drove away on the bike (said force ending up in the manager). You could tell from their reactions that they could see or at least sense something, but it never actually managed, or tried hard, to attack them.

My best guess is that's what she meant, Mardeadite!