Ash vs Evil Dead S01E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

[KingRob]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

This episode was terrible. I was literally moaning with some of the dialogue. I REALLY don't understand how it could be this poorly written - it's like the show was written in its entirety over a long weekend, and then never edited or revised.

Yes, the last shot was cool, but we should have seen it in the second or third episode. Really, I'm thinking that I could do a fan cut of the show and edit the whole thing down to two hours. That's how little the plot has moved forward, how little character development has happened and how little substance there's been so far. I honestly feel like we will probably be able to go from the end of the second episode straight to the cabin and not feel like we missed anything beyond Amanda joining up and Ash getting a new hand. And for a show that's trying to have some semblance of a continuing story, that's a bad thing.

Let's break down the characters, shall we?

Amanda's character has felt worthless since episode two. Being a regular cop who manages to survive a deadite attack, you'd think she would become our audience surrogate - the person who asks questions for the audience's benefit. But we have Pablo for that.

Kelly's character has always been worthless, and could have been replaced with a one-and-done female in every episode. So far, she's been possessed, been a sexual target for Ash and Pablo, saw both her parents killed, and been taken prison and threatened with rape - all with zero character development. At most, she's slightly more pissed off than when the show started. I guess. What other function beyond "attractive female victim" does she play? I have no idea. I'm sure the actress is trying her ass off to make Kelly necessary, but the writing is letting her, and us, down.

Ruby SEEMS like an interesting, more developed character, but maybe that's because we haven't seen her enough to know that she's poorly written as well. So far we know there's some shadowy past going on, but her dialogue has been pretty one-note as well, so who knows.

Pablo is, I feel, necessary - he's our audience surrogate, and in the show's current format, we need one of those. To be fair, this role could have been fulfilled by Kelly as well, but the writers clearly prefer Pablo, both in that role, and as a character in general. That said, even his character development is pretty poor - he goes from scared to heroic and back again at the drop of a hat. If that's part of his deal, fine - but then address it and make that known. Otherwise it's just lazy writing.

Ash is... I'm not sure what to say about Ash at this point. Sometimes he seems spot-on, and other times it feels like Bruce really doesn't want to do this and is just waiting for his scenes to be done (part of that blame also goes to the writers for some pretty awful dialogue). He started out as a great mix of asshole, idiot and badass, but then it's like we lost him and got someone trying to be Ash instead.

If the show's going to survive past people's initial sense of nostalgia, they're REALLY going to need to pick up their writing game. I mean, come on - "Shit's about to get real?" Matrix-ducking fire? Not sure what we're watching, but it doesn't feel like Evil Dead to me.

Obviously, I came away from this episode pretty upset with the show as a whole. Especially after last week's episode, and especially after the last shot from this week. Those suggest they actually KNOW what they're supposed to do, and just refused to do it - which is so much more frustrating than them just doing an overall terrible job. It leaves you pointing at your screen yelling "THIS! THIS! MORE OF THIS!" and then praying it's going to get better - but it never does. It's damn heart-breaking.

 

[Joem1k]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

This episode was terrible. I was literally moaning with some of the dialogue. I REALLY don't understand how it could be this poorly written - it's like the show was written in its entirety over a long weekend, and then never edited or revised.

Yes, the last shot was cool, but we should have seen it in the second or third episode. Really, I'm thinking that I could do a fan cut of the show and edit the whole thing down to two hours. That's how little the plot has moved forward, how little character development has happened and how little substance there's been so far. I honestly feel like we will probably be able to go from the end of the second episode straight to the cabin and not feel like we missed anything beyond Amanda joining up and Ash getting a new hand. And for a show that's trying to have some semblance of a continuing story, that's a bad thing.

Let's break down the characters, shall we?

Amanda's character has felt worthless since episode two. Being a regular cop who manages to survive a deadite attack, you'd think she would become our audience surrogate - the person who asks questions for the audience's benefit. But we have Pablo for that.

Kelly's character has always been worthless, and could have been replaced with a one-and-done female in every episode. So far, she's been possessed, been a sexual target for Ash and Pablo, saw both her parents killed, and been taken prison and threatened with rape - all with zero character development. At most, she's slightly more pissed off than when the show started. I guess. What other function beyond "attractive female victim" does she play? I have no idea. I'm sure the actress is trying her ass off to make Kelly necessary, but the writing is letting her, and us, down.

Ruby SEEMS like an interesting, more developed character, but maybe that's because we haven't seen her enough to know that she's poorly written as well. So far we know there's some shadowy past going on, but her dialogue has been pretty one-note as well, so who knows.

Pablo is, I feel, necessary - he's our audience surrogate, and in the show's current format, we need one of those. To be fair, this role could have been fulfilled by Kelly as well, but the writers clearly prefer Pablo, both in that role, and as a character in general. That said, even his character development is pretty poor - he goes from scared to heroic and back again at the drop of a hat. If that's part of his deal, fine - but then address it and make that known. Otherwise it's just lazy writing.

Ash is... I'm not sure what to say about Ash at this point. Sometimes he seems spot-on, and other times it feels like Bruce really doesn't want to do this and is just waiting for his scenes to be done (part of that blame also goes to the writers for some pretty awful dialogue). He started out as a great mix of asshole, idiot and badass, but then it's like we lost him and got someone trying to be Ash instead.

If the show's going to survive past people's initial sense of nostalgia, they're REALLY going to need to pick up their writing game. I mean, come on - "Shit's about to get real?" Matrix-ducking fire? Not sure what we're watching, but it doesn't feel like Evil Dead to me.

Obviously, I came away from this episode pretty upset with the show as a whole. Especially after last week's episode, and especially after the last shot from this week. Those suggest they actually KNOW what they're supposed to do, and just refused to do it - which is so much more frustrating than them just doing an overall terrible job. It leaves you pointing at your screen yelling "THIS! THIS! MORE OF THIS!" and then praying it's going to get better - but it never does. It's damn heart-breaking.

I'm going to have to disagree with you about ash kelly and pablo (amanda on the other hand is a entirely different story) , they all have had development with there characters since they first met up, Ash hasn't hit on kelly since the first episode and has treated her with abit more respect since then, Pablo i do agree has been all over the place with his emotions but i'm wondering if that just isn't apart of his character, plus he finally backed off kelly and worked with her as a teammate in this episode. Kelly i feel is still going through grief in her own way, and i'm wondering if they aren't setting up something with her bloodlust with the deadites, i keep going back to the revenge scene with pablo and her and can't help but feel they planted a seed with that scene. Ash has really grown up some since the first episode and in this episode he finally broke out of his shell and basically gave a shit about the people around him, his been very sincere about them not coming to the cabin with him since ep 6 he even mentions at the start "everyone i ever had feelings for dies there." and the speech he gives to them and the look he gave them before taking off showed me ash is growing as a character overall, the character development is there but they have just been doing it small amount's and it's been very subtle.to me these three characters to me are the most fleshed out in general and i have a feeling ruby will be too in due time, it's just they have been taking the slow burn to her. 

Amanda character however is just all over the place and i feel she's been the weak link in this whole first season, and quite honestly i'll be glad if they kill her off in these final episodes. She feels like the throwaway character being lined up to be slaughtered and there just waiting to pull the trigger

 

[KingRob]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

I get what you're saying, but that development just doesn't feel genuine to me. It feels so phoned-in for Ash to suddenly decide he cares SO MUCH. We see bits and pieces of him saying "thanks" or agreeing to let them choose whether to follow him or not, but I dunno - his speech just felt very forced, like too much too soon, and the only reason we're seeing that sort of "emotion" out of him is because the plot demands it.

As for planting any seeds - that sure would be great, but at this point I've become pretty cynical about those sorts of things. Every time we think we're going to get some good character development or more back story, we tend to be wrong.

Question for you though: Do you think the writers are done with the "will they/won't they" story line for Pablo and Kelly? I'd love it if that were the case, but I can't see them taking that out since it's been so central to the characters this season.

Plus, I'm thinking they threw Amanda and Ash together so ridiculously fast because they already have a will they/won't they relationship in the show. Or because Amanda's going to die.

Also - thanks for disagreeing! It'd be a really boring place if we all had the same thing to say - and if other die-hard fans are enjoying the show (or at least don't dislike it as much as I seem to), then I'm happy as hell for them!

 

[Joem1k]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

I get what you're saying, but that development just doesn't feel genuine to me. It feels so phoned-in for Ash to suddenly decide he cares SO MUCH. We see bits and pieces of him saying "thanks" or agreeing to let them choose whether to follow him or not, but I dunno - his speech just felt very forced, like too much too soon, and the only reason we're seeing that sort of "emotion" out of him is because the plot demands it.

As for planting any seeds - that sure would be great, but at this point I've become pretty cynical about those sorts of things. Every time we think we're going to get some good character development or more back story, we tend to be wrong.

Question for you though: Do you think the writers are done with the "will they/won't they" story line for Pablo and Kelly? I'd love it if that were the case, but I can't see them taking that out since it's been so central to the characters this season.

Plus, I'm thinking they threw Amanda and Ash together so ridiculously fast because they already have a will they/won't they relationship in the show. Or because Amanda's going to die.

Also - thanks for disagreeing! It'd be a really boring place if we all had the same thing to say - and if other die-hard fans are enjoying the show (or at least don't dislike it as much as I seem to), then I'm happy as hell for them!

From my mindset, i try and look at how ash acted in the pilot episode compared to how  his acted now and his really grown and in my personal opinion his real turning point was in "The Host" he got a lot more closer to pablo and kelly after it then he did in the first couple episodes,So to me it felt refreshing to hear something like that come from him. 


I have a feeling it will be brought up again during the cabin arc, and i bet you 10 bucks something is gonna happen to pablo that is probably going to send kelly into  that revenge mode that pablo went off to her about in the trailer. And yes i do have a feeling they will get together at some point

No problem man 

 

[Joem1k]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

Interesting tweet i just found through twitter.

https://twitter.com/indianaevans_us/status/676129116987506688

She has a striking resemblance to a certain girlfriend ash used to date.....hmmm

 

[DyD]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

This was probably the worst episode so far. I thought the show couldn't get any worse than the mid-season episodes and after the last one I actually thought they had finally found their footing. I guess I was wrong. I don't even feel like going into detail about it. King Rob, MaidOfKandar, Sutter Cane and Hurley already said pretty much everything I had to say. This show is a mess, the writing is ridiculously bad, the acting and directing are very spotty and DiGregorio doesn't seem to have the slightest idea what the hell he's doing. I'm done feeling optimistic or excited about it. It's too frustrating. I'm no longer expecting good things from the final episodes. The return to the cabin had me excited and hoping for good things, thinking they were saving the best for last. Now I'm actually dreading it.

Anyway, here's my updated ranking for the season:

1. Bait - 3.5/5
2. The Killer of Killers - 3/5
3. El Jefe - 2.5/5
4. Books from Beyond - 2/5
5. Brujo - 1.5/5
6. The Host - 1/5
7. Fire in the Hole - 0.5/5

 

[MaidOfKandar]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

Cons:

* Seeing Kelly be sure of herself is giving Pablo a crisis of faith?  After he just had a perfect moment of clarity after the Brujo arc?  What?

* Everyone standing around snickering about the dead militia members while stealing their stuff.  At least Kelly's family and Pablo's uncle got a sense of dignity attached to their deaths, but the level of "eh, who the hell cares" about the people who died at the Moose and at the camp was off-putting.  Sure, they were assholes who tried to kill you - so was Kelly's mom.  But you're standing there stealing shit from dead people.  Again: it was crass (And yes, I know this is Evil Dead).


Observations:

Spoiler

It's also possible that the kid shows up at the cabin and that's where it happens, because Bruce did mention killing a child Deadite at one point.

1. I think it was more of pablo trying to figure out what his go-to weapon was as kelly already figured out what her's was going to be, and we got that in the form of the magnum revolver (*cough* PABLO GRIMES *cough)

2. I think this part should be blamed on the director of this episode micheal hurst and whoever wrote the script for this episode and how rushed it felt, atleast the past directors and writers tried to add weight to the deaths of the side character's in the early episodes.

Spoiler

And that's why im thinking they were saving the best for last,  and this also just show's me that they are really going to push it with the cabin arc episode's if they are bringing in  a 10 year old deadite.

1: I'd go with that, if they hadn't show how handy he is with a shovel.  TBH that should've been his signature weapon. 

I don't see how it seemed forced. Maybe it was a little fast in that the episodes are so short, and she went from hunting him to sort of falling for him in no time flat. None the less, I thought that the chemistry was perfect between the two... and the little laugh when he spun her around and barked was an honest reaction from Jill that showed it.

I wouldn't even call them out on the shortness of the relationship (Ash and Sheila had as much shared screen time yet I wholly believed their connection) if it felt like it was repetitious.  We've seen Ash fall in lust this way before; we don't need to do it again.

The only time I found them charming was the attempted kiss at the very end, where Pablo and Kelly interrupted them like a couple of kids and they both broke up.  I can feel Jill and Bruce trying but the thoughtline with Amanda is so screwed up that I feel the artificiality of it.

This episode was terrible. I was literally moaning with some of the dialogue. I REALLY don't understand how it could be this poorly written - it's like the show was written in its entirety over a long weekend, and then never edited or revised.

Yes, the last shot was cool, but we should have seen it in the second or third episode. Really, I'm thinking that I could do a fan cut of the show and edit the whole thing down to two hours. That's how little the plot has moved forward, how little character development has happened and how little substance there's been so far. I honestly feel like we will probably be able to go from the end of the second episode straight to the cabin and not feel like we missed anything beyond Amanda joining up and Ash getting a new hand. And for a show that's trying to have some semblance of a continuing story, that's a bad thing.

Let's break down the characters, shall we?

Amanda's character has felt worthless since episode two. Being a regular cop who manages to survive a deadite attack, you'd think she would become our audience surrogate - the person who asks questions for the audience's benefit. But we have Pablo for that.

Kelly's character has always been worthless, and could have been replaced with a one-and-done female in every episode. So far, she's been possessed, been a sexual target for Ash and Pablo, saw both her parents killed, and been taken prison and threatened with rape - all with zero character development. At most, she's slightly more pissed off than when the show started. I guess. What other function beyond "attractive female victim" does she play? I have no idea. I'm sure the actress is trying her ass off to make Kelly necessary, but the writing is letting her, and us, down.

Ruby SEEMS like an interesting, more developed character, but maybe that's because we haven't seen her enough to know that she's poorly written as well. So far we know there's some shadowy past going on, but her dialogue has been pretty one-note as well, so who knows.

Pablo is, I feel, necessary - he's our audience surrogate, and in the show's current format, we need one of those. To be fair, this role could have been fulfilled by Kelly as well, but the writers clearly prefer Pablo, both in that role, and as a character in general. That said, even his character development is pretty poor - he goes from scared to heroic and back again at the drop of a hat. If that's part of his deal, fine - but then address it and make that known. Otherwise it's just lazy writing.

Ash is... I'm not sure what to say about Ash at this point. Sometimes he seems spot-on, and other times it feels like Bruce really doesn't want to do this and is just waiting for his scenes to be done (part of that blame also goes to the writers for some pretty awful dialogue). He started out as a great mix of asshole, idiot and badass, but then it's like we lost him and got someone trying to be Ash instead.

If the show's going to survive past people's initial sense of nostalgia, they're REALLY going to need to pick up their writing game. I mean, come on - "Shit's about to get real?" Matrix-ducking fire? Not sure what we're watching, but it doesn't feel like Evil Dead to me.

Obviously, I came away from this episode pretty upset with the show as a whole. Especially after last week's episode, and especially after the last shot from this week. Those suggest they actually KNOW what they're supposed to do, and just refused to do it - which is so much more frustrating than them just doing an overall terrible job. It leaves you pointing at your screen yelling "THIS! THIS! MORE OF THIS!" and then praying it's going to get better - but it never does. It's damn heart-breaking.

I'm willing to defend Kelly - or I would be if they'd just tweak her character the tiniest bit.  I think she at least has a thoughtline going on behind her - she's supposed to be tracing the same path that took Ash from young man of no import to Big Time Deadite Killer.  

The thing is that Pablo is literally taking the exact same path without losing his core character motives (his innocence and sense of faith).  Kelly's core character is Tough Ass Chick, and at least this is basically keeping true to who she is at the beginning of the show.  Yet I think Kelly's storyline at least makes sense for her.  The characters really aren't developing though - and even Ash develops from movie to movie.

I actually am pretty bothered by the fact that Pablo keeps going from needy to independent.  I feel like he's getting more development but they backslide on his character for plot contrivance.

This episode was terrible. I was literally moaning with some of the dialogue. I REALLY don't understand how it could be this poorly written - it's like the show was written in its entirety over a long weekend, and then never edited or revised.

Yes, the last shot was cool, but we should have seen it in the second or third episode. Really, I'm thinking that I could do a fan cut of the show and edit the whole thing down to two hours. That's how little the plot has moved forward, how little character development has happened and how little substance there's been so far. I honestly feel like we will probably be able to go from the end of the second episode straight to the cabin and not feel like we missed anything beyond Amanda joining up and Ash getting a new hand. And for a show that's trying to have some semblance of a continuing story, that's a bad thing.

Let's break down the characters, shall we?

Amanda's character has felt worthless since episode two. Being a regular cop who manages to survive a deadite attack, you'd think she would become our audience surrogate - the person who asks questions for the audience's benefit. But we have Pablo for that.

Kelly's character has always been worthless, and could have been replaced with a one-and-done female in every episode. So far, she's been possessed, been a sexual target for Ash and Pablo, saw both her parents killed, and been taken prison and threatened with rape - all with zero character development. At most, she's slightly more pissed off than when the show started. I guess. What other function beyond "attractive female victim" does she play? I have no idea. I'm sure the actress is trying her ass off to make Kelly necessary, but the writing is letting her, and us, down.

Ruby SEEMS like an interesting, more developed character, but maybe that's because we haven't seen her enough to know that she's poorly written as well. So far we know there's some shadowy past going on, but her dialogue has been pretty one-note as well, so who knows.

Pablo is, I feel, necessary - he's our audience surrogate, and in the show's current format, we need one of those. To be fair, this role could have been fulfilled by Kelly as well, but the writers clearly prefer Pablo, both in that role, and as a character in general. That said, even his character development is pretty poor - he goes from scared to heroic and back again at the drop of a hat. If that's part of his deal, fine - but then address it and make that known. Otherwise it's just lazy writing.

Ash is... I'm not sure what to say about Ash at this point. Sometimes he seems spot-on, and other times it feels like Bruce really doesn't want to do this and is just waiting for his scenes to be done (part of that blame also goes to the writers for some pretty awful dialogue). He started out as a great mix of asshole, idiot and badass, but then it's like we lost him and got someone trying to be Ash instead.

If the show's going to survive past people's initial sense of nostalgia, they're REALLY going to need to pick up their writing game. I mean, come on - "Shit's about to get real?" Matrix-ducking fire? Not sure what we're watching, but it doesn't feel like Evil Dead to me.

Obviously, I came away from this episode pretty upset with the show as a whole. Especially after last week's episode, and especially after the last shot from this week. Those suggest they actually KNOW what they're supposed to do, and just refused to do it - which is so much more frustrating than them just doing an overall terrible job. It leaves you pointing at your screen yelling "THIS! THIS! MORE OF THIS!" and then praying it's going to get better - but it never does. It's damn heart-breaking.

I'm going to have to disagree with you about ash kelly and pablo (amanda on the other hand is a entirely different story) , they all have had development with there characters since they first met up, Ash hasn't hit on kelly since the first episode and has treated her with abit more respect since then, Pablo i do agree has been all over the place with his emotions but i'm wondering if that just isn't apart of his character, plus he finally backed off kelly and worked with her as a teammate in this episode. Kelly i feel is still going through grief in her own way, and i'm wondering if they aren't setting up something with her bloodlust with the deadites, i keep going back to the revenge scene with pablo and her and can't help but feel they planted a seed with that scene. Ash has really grown up some since the first episode and in this episode he finally broke out of his shell and basically gave a shit about the people around him, his been very sincere about them not coming to the cabin with him since ep 6 he even mentions at the start "everyone i ever had feelings for dies there." and the speech he gives to them and the look he gave them before taking off showed me ash is growing as a character overall, the character development is there but they have just been doing it small amount's and it's been very subtle.to me these three characters to me are the most fleshed out in general and i have a feeling ruby will be too in due time, it's just they have been taking the slow burn to her. 

Amanda character however is just all over the place and i feel she's been the weak link in this whole first season, and quite honestly i'll be glad if they kill her off in these final episodes. She feels like the throwaway character being lined up to be slaughtered and there just waiting to pull the trigger

Ash actually hit on Kelly in the second episode.  

I feel like a lot of what we're missing is transitional stuff - we need a conversation or a moment that deepens things between Ash and Kelly instead of having him admit he's wrong then show him fondly watching her through as window as she kills. Maybe if he apologized for hitting on her?  (he could even call it "poaching on Pablo's territory," which would both make sense to him and be super annoying to her).  I just don't get why he'd be fond of her and Amanda at his point.  Pablo at least there's a consistent line with: they've been friends, their relationship has developed into a brotherhood.

Interesting tweet i just found through twitter.

https://twitter.com/indianaevans_us/status/676129116987506688

She has a striking resemblance to a certain girlfriend ash used to date.....hmmm

I think she's supposed to be 

Spoiler

The one playing Linda/Linda's head

 

[Joem1k]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ash actually hit on Kelly in the second episode.  

I feel like a lot of what we're missing is transitional stuff - we need a conversation or a moment that deepens things between Ash and Kelly instead of having him admit he's wrong then show him fondly watching her through as window as she kills. Maybe if he apologized for hitting on her?  (he could even call it "poaching on Pablo's territory," which would both make sense to him and be super annoying to her).  I just don't get why he'd be fond of her and Amanda at his point.  Pablo at least there's a consistent line with: they've been friends, their relationship has developed into a brotherhood.

Interesting tweet i just found through twitter.

https://twitter.com/indianaevans_us/status/676129116987506688

She has a striking resemblance to a certain girlfriend ash used to date.....hmmm

I think she's supposed to be 

Spoiler

The one playing Linda/Linda's head

I think that was just ash's way  of trying to make her feel better about herself rather then hitting on her. 

Actually kelly and ash sort of have a moment in "The host" at the end of it, it's a quick but brief scene between the two before pablo walked in, I do hope we get more scenes like that between the two in the upcoming season.

"Pablo's conflicting emotions" 

I'm really starting to think that it's apart of pablo's character to have these backtracks in his overall character, his essentially like ash from ED1, his going through the motions a lot more slower because of his overall innocence and his beliefs, his probably been the most logical and the most honest one of  the group as well. Every time either kelly or ash step's out of line or they do something stupid his always there to call them out on it, i'm really starting to get why ray said pablo is the heart of this group and it's really starting to show in these recent episode's. I really can't wait till pablo has his moment to shine because there building up to something with him and i can't wait to see what the plans are with him for next season.  


(Side Note, 

I was re-watching this episode again and i noticed in the assault rifle scene ray was visibly shaking after it, you can see this when he hold's his fists up, Great physical acting on his part !   )

 

[Nick el Ass]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

I was re-watching this episode again and i noticed in the assault rifle scene ray was visibly shaking after it, you can see this when he hold's his fists up, Great physical acting on his part !   )

Ray did a bit of improvised Deadite boxing, and got some battle scars. 

https://twitter.com/RealRaySantiago/status/675884414195253248

 

[Hurley]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

Interesting tweet i just found through twitter.

https://twitter.com/indianaevans_us/status/676129116987506688

She has a striking resemblance to a certain girlfriend ash used to date.....hmmm

I think she's supposed to be 

Spoiler

The one playing Linda/Linda's head

Spoiler

I don't think that's gonna be Linda. Linda is this actress. The actress from the Twitter is probably a character from this clip.

 

[The Other Frog Brother]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

I figured the next time I posted here I would make the effort to be positive. Then I saw Fire in the Hole. God Dammit.

The Good:

Handcuffed team-up was fairly creative.

Pablo repeatedly punching a corpse was appropriately over the top.

We see the cabin.

Er.

That's it.

 

[eViL DeAdiTe]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

Gonna try not to nitpick too much as I’m honestly just pleased as hell to see any improvement in the show after those underwhelming middle eps. This episode was entertaining and that's all really want out of this show.
 
Starting to appreciate the Kelly/Pablo relationship more as the season progresses and they have more to do. Like seeing them figure out how to be more involved in the fight because they were boring as hell when they were helpless. The bits with the Gas mask deadite actually had me laughing out loud which hasn’t happened a lot with this show. I hope they get more involved in the splatstick (with respect, Bruce is getting a little old for that) and steer clear of all that pining crap for a while. Agreed that they need to balance out Kelly a little more and maybe introduce some vulnerability to her character at some point?
 
Ruby’s terminator/phoenix (body double) moment was interesting, but contributed nothing to her story. From what people are saying it seems some of her scenes from this ep might have been cut. Further evidence of the need for a 40min format.
 
Deadite Lem was fun and creepy, and I loved the makeup. He was pretty slow and lumbering for no reason though. Above ground he was obviously quick enough to get the drop on a few of those militia members. Wish they’d given him some wounds to explain his change in pace, maybe a busted leg? Fire gimmick was cool, and made him less generic.
 
The CG doesn’t seem as terrible anymore, or maybe I’m just getting used to it. In any event, it’s come a long way since Book from Beyond. It seems like they learned to start reserving it for long shots rather than close ups, and I hope they keep moving in this direction.
 
Ash & Amanda 

Spoiler

[size=medium]To me, the only logical explanation for the uncomfortably forced (and lacking in any believable chemistry) romance between Ash & Amanda is if Amanda doesn’t make it out of the season alive. My gut tells me Linda or Ruby will do her in at the cabin. This way they can pay off on Ash’s foreshadowing (“people I care for always die there”) without losing Pablo/Kelly. It makes sense for the story as well. There’s no room for Ruby in a half hour format without getting rid of someone, and I expect she’ll play a larger role in season two.

[/size]

Love that final shot of the cabin with the hand returning home. Wow, the set they built looks phenomenal. I only wish they had cut to credits sooner as it seemed to drag on a little too long.  

 

[Nick el Ass]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

The hand going to the cabin at the end was pretty interesting in that it made me think of Thing which was the hand from the Addams Family only this hand is more of a dick, haha. I expect it to flip someone off at some point. 

Spoiler

If you read the description of Ashes to Ashes from Starz it reads "Ash attempts to bury the book to end the Evil, but first he must contend with other, more physical things from his past. Fisher faces a horrific change in Ash." which leads me to believe this episode he has to battle not only the cabin, but a certain formerly ash covered member of the Knowby family.

/I don't think anyone will come out of episode 8 unscathed.

 

[Joem1k]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

Bloody Disgusting has seen the last three episodes

"i’ve seen the final three episodes and can assure you that they all take place in the cabin, and that all sorts of crazy shit happens. While I won’t go as far as to say there’s classic stuff here, I will say that it’s better than the previous handful of episodes and delivers a lot of what fans are hoping for."

Source : http://bloody-disgusting.com/videos/3372939/next-on-ash-vs-evil-dead-ash-heads-to-the-evil-dead-cabin/

These are the same people who had a scathing review about BAIT and i ended up highly enjoying that episode, so i think i'm gonna hold back on going off what the critics say about these last three episodes, but it's good to know that they will be all be taking place in the cabin.

 

[Mardeadite]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

Another new clip, OH BOY HERE WE GO :rolleyes:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/11/ash-vs-evil-dead-talks-dirty-finds-love-in-exclusive-clip.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28The+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29

Our first glimpse of the cabin since ED2, with Ash's hand walking towards it. Amazing shot. Amazing recreation of the cabin. Everything I could hope for . . but yet again completely diminished by the awful musical choices. That scene with some classic score (or maybe even nothing at all, or better yet a "Join Us", or even better yet the sound of the swing knocking against the cabin) would have been maybe the most exciting scene of the entire series but the music KILLED the tone. I am seriously growing to loathe their choices in music on this show. It is completely taking me out of some crucial scenes.

Its also part of one of my biggest problems on the show and that's the handling of the "Evil" as unimportant fodder. I can't buy that this threat is that big of a deal when characters are laughing minutes after disposing of deadites and we're being greeted with upbeat rock as the musical backdrop. This is Ash vs Diet Evil Dead.

Our first glimpse of the cabin since ED2, with Ash's hand walking towards it. Amazing shot. Amazing recreation of the cabin. Everything I could hope for . . but yet again completely diminished by the awful musical choices. That scene with some classic score (or maybe even nothing at all, or better yet a "Join Us", or even better yet the sound of the swing knocking against the cabin) would have been maybe the most exciting scene of the entire series but the music KILLED the tone. I am seriously growing to loathe their choices in music on this show. It is completely taking me out of some crucial scenes.

Its also part of one of my biggest problems on the show and that's the handling of the "Evil" as unimportant fodder. I can't buy that this threat is that big of a deal when characters are laughing minutes after disposing of deadites and we're being greeted with upbeat rock as the musical backdrop. This is Ash vs Diet Evil Dead.

I'm kinda wondering if the cabin is going to basically make ash and the sidekicks it's bitch during the cabin arc and them getting cocky there at the end of it makes me wonder if they truly understand what there getting themselves into with the cabin, i think that's part of the reason why ash took off. 

He know's what that cabin is capable of doing and he dosen't want them getting killed and that's why he goes off by himself, i have a feeling the deadites are going to be alot more like the movie versions in these upcoming episodes and there basically going to chew the sidekicks up like a buncha dog toy's.

IN-DEPTH REVIEW (PRO'S,MIDDLE'S AND CON'S) 

i have a lot to say about this episode, some of it being mixed and one part of it feeling disappointing, overall this episode will probably be low on list overall which sucks to say but this one felt rushed out the door so they could get into the cabin arc quickly. I thought it was a good entertaining filler episode but the flaws that were in this episode are just to big to ignore 


PRO'S

Pablo and Kelly's scenes 

Ash actually trying to be sentimental towards his friends and trying to talk them out of going to cabin before ultimately taking off towards the cabin without them.  

The gore and kills were on point in this episode and i'm starting to see less and less of the cgi.

The teamwork ash and amanda did in the final fight with lem. (only part i liked about there story together)

The sidekicks downplaying the cabin and ash's warning about them coming to the cabin. It's gonna be so sweet seeing the cabin f*ck with them so badly it's not even gonna be funny and im just gonna be sitting there like "Hey ash told you it was dangerous but nope didn't listen"

MIDDLE'S

Ruby's resurrection scene was great but we were told by the description of this episode we would be getting more out of what ruby's mission would be and that obviously didn't happen. (I'm really starting to suspect that they have extended versions of these episodes and will be apart of the box set when it comes out)

Lems deadite was probably the worst and most dumbest deadite i've seen yet, but i felt it was intentionally done. 

The Final shot of this episode was just chilling to see but it should have been done with Joseph's score, it would have added to it a lot more. 



CON'S (  *RANT INCOMING*  )

Ash and amanda's relationship

The writing and overall  chemistry between these two just made me wanna gag on a spoon,  bruce tries with all his might to get it to stick but it's the writing and overall acting for amanda's character that just drags this subplot down into the trash. I get what they were trying to go for with it and that's a cheesy  type of relationship but it just ultimately just falls on it's ass because of the writing of her character and overall execution by the actress, it almost seems like she's being setup to be a throwaway character and quite honestly i think this show will be better off without her around. 

Amanda

Amanda really rubbed me the wrong way for some reason this episode, she just come's off as this snarky asshole towards the end of it and the kerosene line towards ash after he just poured his gut's out to them was just mean as hell and i  legit cheered when ash left them in the dust at the end of this episode. 



The Walking Deadite's

I do have to agree with everyone else that the deadites have been weakened down  and they get killed quite quickly in this TV SHOW, but i'm still holding out that they amp them back up for the cabin arc and we really get to seem them come at ash and his pals full force for these final three episodes. 


IN-SUMMARY

This one was really mixed bag for me and will probably be really low on my list for top episodes this season, it was a good entertaining filler episode before the cabin and made me laugh in some parts but some moments of it just put me in a sour mood. Don't really have any observations or theory's for this week's episode, but the one thing i am excited to see is probably ash and ruby finally meeting, i can't wait to see how they play off each other.

I don't see how it seemed forced. Maybe it was a little fast in that the episodes are so short, and she went from hunting him to sort of falling for him in no time flat. None the less, I thought that the chemistry was perfect between the two... and the little laugh when he spun her around and barked was an honest reaction from Jill that showed it.

 

[Joem1k]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

Writer's and Director confirmed for ep 8, plus micheal basically pretty much confirms this next episode is gonna be ash heavy. 

"[font=Arial, sans-serif]'Course u loved [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]@AshvsEvilDead[/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]. Next ep is a cracker w/more [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]@GroovyBruce[/font][font=Arial, sans-serif] than anyone can handle. Written by me & directed by [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]@tonytilse"[/font]


Source : https://twitter.com/michaeljbassett/status/676117065368018944

 

[MaidOfKandar]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ash actually hit on Kelly in the second episode.  

I feel like a lot of what we're missing is transitional stuff - we need a conversation or a moment that deepens things between Ash and Kelly instead of having him admit he's wrong then show him fondly watching her through as window as she kills. Maybe if he apologized for hitting on her?  (he could even call it "poaching on Pablo's territory," which would both make sense to him and be super annoying to her).  I just don't get why he'd be fond of her and Amanda at his point.  Pablo at least there's a consistent line with: they've been friends, their relationship has developed into a brotherhood.

Interesting tweet i just found through twitter.

https://twitter.com/indianaevans_us/status/676129116987506688

She has a striking resemblance to a certain girlfriend ash used to date.....hmmm

I think she's supposed to be 

Spoiler

The one playing Linda/Linda's head

I think that was just ash's way  of trying to make her feel better about herself rather then hitting on her. 

Actually kelly and ash sort of have a moment in "The host" at the end of it, it's a quick but brief scene between the two before pablo walked in, I do hope we get more scenes like that between the two in the upcoming season.

"Pablo's conflicting emotions" 

I'm really starting to think that it's apart of pablo's character to have these backtracks in his overall character, his essentially like ash from ED1, his going through the motions a lot more slower because of his overall innocence and his beliefs, his probably been the most logical and the most honest one of  the group as well. Every time either kelly or ash step's out of line or they do something stupid his always there to call them out on it, i'm really starting to get why ray said pablo is the heart of this group and it's really starting to show in these recent episode's. I really can't wait till pablo has his moment to shine because there building up to something with him and i can't wait to see what the plans are with him for next season.  


(Side Note, 

I was re-watching this episode again and i noticed in the assault rifle scene ray was visibly shaking after it, you can see this when he hold's his fists up, Great physical acting on his part !   )

At this point, we just plain need women in the story that Ash doesn't want to fuck on some level.  There's nothing wrong with Ash wanting to fuck like, half the women in the canon but there needs to be someone who acts as a non-romantic counterpoint with which he doesn't even come close to having sexual chemistry with.  There are characters like that in all three movies.

I'm still relieved that Pablo is the best character on the show (IMOHO of course).  The show could've gone some terrible places with him and apparently very nearly did.

Yep, I knew about that moment -mentioned it above in my commentary.  IDK, it didn't feel like enough to me?  Or too directed at Pablo.

Gonna try not to nitpick too much as I’m honestly just pleased as hell to see any improvement in the show after those underwhelming middle eps. This episode was entertaining and that's all really want out of this show.
 
Starting to appreciate the Kelly/Pablo relationship more as the season progresses and they have more to do. Like seeing them figure out how to be more involved in the fight because they were boring as hell when they were helpless. The bits with the Gas mask deadite actually had me laughing out loud which hasn’t happened a lot with this show. I hope they get more involved in the splatstick (with respect, Bruce is getting a little old for that) and steer clear of all that pining crap for a while. Agreed that they need to balance out Kelly a little more and maybe introduce some vulnerability to her character at some point?
 
Ruby’s terminator/phoenix (body double) moment was interesting, but contributed nothing to her story. From what people are saying it seems some of her scenes from this ep might have been cut. Further evidence of the need for a 40min format.
 
Deadite Lem was fun and creepy, and I loved the makeup. He was pretty slow and lumbering for no reason though. Above ground he was obviously quick enough to get the drop on a few of those militia members. Wish they’d given him some wounds to explain his change in pace, maybe a busted leg? Fire gimmick was cool, and made him less generic.
 
The CG doesn’t seem as terrible anymore, or maybe I’m just getting used to it. In any event, it’s come a long way since Book from Beyond. It seems like they learned to start reserving it for long shots rather than close ups, and I hope they keep moving in this direction.
 
Ash & Amanda 

Spoiler

[size=medium]To me, the only logical explanation for the uncomfortably forced (and lacking in any believable chemistry) romance between Ash & Amanda is if Amanda doesn’t make it out of the season alive. My gut tells me Linda or Ruby will do her in at the cabin. This way they can pay off on Ash’s foreshadowing (“people I care for always die there”) without losing Pablo/Kelly. It makes sense for the story as well. There’s no room for Ruby in a half hour format without getting rid of someone, and I expect she’ll play a larger role in season two.

[/size]

Love that final shot of the cabin with the hand returning home. Wow, the set they built looks phenomenal. I only wish they had cut to credits sooner as it seemed to drag on a little too long.  

Spoiler

I've been completely team Amanda's-going-to-die since they released the episode descrips.  They described Amanda as "Ash's love interest" in the character breakdowns that they released to the press; the question is, is she a one-season interest or his over-arching girlfriend?  I think at the very least she will temporarily die and (judging from the Amanda Returns piece) will probably come back as a Deadite.  Whether they pull the 'true love saves' trope again we don't know. 

Ash actually hit on Kelly in the second episode.  

I feel like a lot of what we're missing is transitional stuff - we need a conversation or a moment that deepens things between Ash and Kelly instead of having him admit he's wrong then show him fondly watching her through as window as she kills. Maybe if he apologized for hitting on her?  (he could even call it "poaching on Pablo's territory," which would both make sense to him and be super annoying to her).  I just don't get why he'd be fond of her and Amanda at his point.  Pablo at least there's a consistent line with: they've been friends, their relationship has developed into a brotherhood.

Interesting tweet i just found through twitter.

https://twitter.com/indianaevans_us/status/676129116987506688

She has a striking resemblance to a certain girlfriend ash used to date.....hmmm

I think she's supposed to be 

Spoiler

The one playing Linda/Linda's head

I think that was just ash's way  of trying to make her feel better about herself rather then hitting on her. 

Actually kelly and ash sort of have a moment in "The host" at the end of it, it's a quick but brief scene between the two before pablo walked in, I do hope we get more scenes like that between the two in the upcoming season.

"Pablo's conflicting emotions" 

I'm really starting to think that it's apart of pablo's character to have these backtracks in his overall character, his essentially like ash from ED1, his going through the motions a lot more slower because of his overall innocence and his beliefs, his probably been the most logical and the most honest one of  the group as well. Every time either kelly or ash step's out of line or they do something stupid his always there to call them out on it, i'm really starting to get why ray said pablo is the heart of this group and it's really starting to show in these recent episode's. I really can't wait till pablo has his moment to shine because there building up to something with him and i can't wait to see what the plans are with him for next season.  


(Side Note, 

I was re-watching this episode again and i noticed in the assault rifle scene ray was visibly shaking after it, you can see this when he hold's his fists up, Great physical acting on his part !   )

@Hurley

Spoiler

I swear they're confusing me with all of this samefacy blond casting going on.  Thank you!

@Joe - Yeah, Tilse is confirmed for the next two, the final episode is directed by Rick Jacobson, who's best known for doing Bitch Slap.  Tilse doesn't have a lot of notable credits outside of a couple of Farscape episodes.  And ugh, Bassett is writing this one?  His directing was so boring and scattershot, I'm afraid to find out what his scripting's like.

Bloody Disgusting has seen the last three episodes

"i’ve seen the final three episodes and can assure you that they all take place in the cabin, and that all sorts of crazy shit happens. While I won’t go as far as to say there’s classic stuff here, I will say that it’s better than the previous handful of episodes and delivers a lot of what fans are hoping for."

Source : http://bloody-disgusting.com/videos/3372939/next-on-ash-vs-evil-dead-ash-heads-to-the-evil-dead-cabin/

These are the same people who had a scathing review about BAIT and i ended up highly enjoying that episode, so i think i'm gonna hold back on going off what the critics say about these last three episodes, but it's good to know that they will be all be taking place in the cabin.

"I won't go as far to say classic stuff happens here."

Yep, concerned.  And really, they didn't like "Bait?"  I kinda tuned out after the third recap, their reviews have been as worshipful as the ones Rolling Stone and the AV Club have been cranking out.

@Nick

Spoiler

I'd love it if they actually used Annie here, but apparently the thing confronting Ash will be Linda-centric, plus the force/his hand.

 

[Mardeadite]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

Sorry for my botched up post earlier guys. I took multiple quotes and actually responded to them last night, but as it was late and I was tired, I didn't check it after posting. I should have used the preview feature, but again, I was tired.

It seems there were multiple quotes... but none of the stuff I wrote. Hmm.

I have deleted the post above.

Anyhow. Basically, I liked this episode. Not as much as last week's, but it was fun enough.

I do like the Amanda character, but I wasn't keen on the that 'about to get smoochy after the dreadful pick up lines' bit. Would this tough cop lady really fall so quickly for that?

Okay, beyond the first episode she hasn't been all that tough, but the fact she continued her investigation after her whole view of the world was turned upside down, rather than going home and diving into bed and the bottle (not necessarily in that order) is something.

Even taking into account the stressful situation? I don't think so.

This was maybe a downstep from episode 6, and I kinda wish Lem had appeared normal at the start drawing Ash and co in. But I guess they kinda did that in Bait. If they'd all appeared normal and friendly... then turned once the ghost beaters were among them, that might have been interesting though. Instead they kinda turned piece-meal then did their thing and got offed. Mind you, that's not outside of Evil Dead tradition either.

Overall, it was okay though. Oh, and I loved the scene at the end with the hand creeping towards the cabin. I had no problem with the rock backing track either. Yes its a creepy scene but I also found it amusing. (In a good way.) The deadite hand has always been a comedic character so having it scuttle its way to the cabin to a rock band was fine with me.

I'm all for bringing back some of the tone of the films, but I don't mind the series doing some of its own thing too, or things could get repetitive.

 

[MaidOfKandar]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

@Mardeadite -it's happened to me more times than I can count! Glad you came back to post!

 

[Joem1k]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead S01 E07: Fire in the Hole Discussion [SPOILERS]

Spoiler

I am very curious into finding out who this "Brad" character is that is mentioned on the imdb pages, and why is the same actress who played the same french poetry chick from pilot in the finale episode as a character named "lucy" that is very intriguing to me. Speaking of french poetry, it was brought up several times in that pilot, she mentioned it and kelly's mom also had a french poetry book and not to mention the fact she's also listed in there as well for the finale. Very intriguing indeed

Plus did anyone else notice that in this episode ruby was wearing the same type of nail polish, the french poetry chick had on in the pilot, it could just be me over analyzing but it's something interesting to point out.