Ash vs Evil Dead S02E01: Home Discussion [SPOILERS]

Here is the first After Ash review from the folks at Collider for AvED episode Home.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy0MSjFehH8[/video]
 
Muzzlehatch said:
Well, if real life logic was a concern for the show's writers, it would have opened with Ash as an inmate of somekind of high security asylum or as an fugitive living in the backwoods where no one could find him, not living in the same state under his real name. But there is another thing that makes no sense: In the cabin there is not only Jake's corpse (and among others there also should be the deformed deadite corpses of Ed and Henrietta I assmume). In one of the cabin episodes the tape recorder and the Knowby tape were also shown. And in case of a criminal investigation (and in real life there would have been one of course) some pitiful detective would have pushed the play button of the damn thing, starting a new wave of demon possession. That would have been a plausible start for a ED4 movie, if that would have been made with a young Bruce shortly afer AoD. But now I don't have much hope that the writer's room would adress such continuity issues.

Ash starting out in an asylum makes the most sense – that's actually how the Evil Dead: Regeneration game started. However I think it's a wasted opportunity for the show to skip all this. What if for example Ash needed to track down the investigator that was working on the cabin case? What if that investigator is in a mental institution himself? What if we got a flashback episode about the investigation? There are lots of ways to deal with this, to explain why Ash didn't end up in an asylum or in prison, why Jake's skeleton or the tape recorder are still in the cabin (for example the remake introduced the idea of the Necronomicon "restarting" itself, so I think the cabin could do the same thing, showing its visitors what it wants them to see, making sure nobody can find it in the woods, etc).

There are simply too many interesting ways to deal with this than to just ignore it.
 
Hurley said:
Muzzlehatch said:
Well, if real life logic was a concern for the show's writers, it would have opened with Ash as an inmate of somekind of high security asylum or as an fugitive living in the backwoods where no one could find him, not living in the same state under his real name. But there is another thing that makes no sense: In the cabin there is not only Jake's corpse (and among others there also should be the deformed deadite corpses of Ed and Henrietta I assmume). In one of the cabin episodes the tape recorder and the Knowby tape were also shown. And in case of a criminal investigation (and in real life there would have been one of course) some pitiful detective would have pushed the play button of the damn thing, starting a new wave of demon possession. That would have been a plausible start for a ED4 movie, if that would have been made with a young Bruce shortly afer AoD. But now I don't have much hope that the writer's room would adress such continuity issues.

Ash starting out in an asylum makes the most sense – that's actually how the Evil Dead: Regeneration game started. However I think it's a wasted opportunity for the show to skip all this. What if for example Ash needed to track down the investigator that was working on the cabin case? What if that investigator is in a mental institution himself? What if we got a flashback episode about the investigation? There are lots of ways to deal with this, to explain why Ash didn't end up in an asylum or in prison, why Jake's skeleton or the tape recorder are still in the cabin (for example the remake introduced the idea of the Necronomicon "restarting" itself, so I think the cabin could do the same thing, showing its visitors what it wants them to see, making sure nobody can find it in the woods, etc).

There are simply too many interesting ways to deal with this than to just ignore it.

I agree with everything you write. I find all these story opportunities to be extremly interesting. I just don't have so much trust in the show's writers room (and the exectutive producers, especially Bruce).
 
https://twitter.com/AshvsEvilDead/status/783364895207153666

Here's the this season on Ash and holy fuck i love this new villain there bringing in !

and before anyone says anything about that joke at the beginning, it is just a fart joke, just side eye and move on. 

Will be back with a full breakdown later but i'm loving what i saw 

Holy shit pablo looks to be embracing the dark side, and man that was a heartbreaking thing to see ash in a straight jack. and there were more teases of ash entering cheryl's room ! 
 
Joem1k said:
https://twitter.com/AshvsEvilDead/status/783364895207153666

Here's the this season on Ash and holy fuck i love this new villain there bringing in !


Will be back with a full breakdown later but i'm loving what i saw 

Holy shit pablo looks to be embracing the dark side, and man that was a heartbreaking thing to see ash in a straight jack. and there were more teases of ash entering cheryl's room ! 

It's here, people. What we've all been waiting for.

Fart jokes.
 
Hurley said:
Joem1k said:
https://twitter.com/AshvsEvilDead/status/783364895207153666

Here's the this season on Ash and holy fuck i love this new villain there bringing in !


Will be back with a full breakdown later but i'm loving what i saw 

Holy shit pablo looks to be embracing the dark side, and man that was a heartbreaking thing to see ash in a straight jack. and there were more teases of ash entering cheryl's room ! 

It's here, people. What we've all been waiting for.

Fart jokes.

God damn it Hurley  :rolleyes:, welp time to watch pages go by. In all seriousness let me just get this out of the way for everyone else before we waste a couple pages, Yes it is low brow humor, yes it doesn't belong here in evil dead, and final WHAT ARE THEY DOING GAHHHHHHHHH DAMN THESE WRITERS !!! There i think i saved everyone the trouble of typing out a 10 page essay on why evil dead shouldn't have fart jokes,. But wait didn't they have that kinda humor in evil dead regeneration as well ?
 
Joem1k said:
God damn it Hurley  :rolleyes:, welp time to watch pages go by. In all seriousness let me just get out of the way for everyone else before we waste a couple pages, Yes it is low brow humor, yes it doesn't belong here in evil dead, and final WHAT ARE THEY DOING GAHHHHHHHHH DAMN THESE WRITERS !!! There i think i saved everyone the trouble of typing out a 10 page essay on why evil dead shouldn't have fart jokes.

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to sabotage your enthusiasm. I'm glad you're exited about it, but this trailer simply does nothing for me. It falls to the category of "look how insanely crazy and bloody and gory this all is", but not much else. I'm not saying I'm not looking forward to the new episodes – and maybe it's just the way this trailer was made, how it's trying to hit only one spot of the show's entertainment spectre, but for me it's just… eeh…
 
Hurley said:
Joem1k said:
God damn it Hurley  :rolleyes:, welp time to watch pages go by. In all seriousness let me just get out of the way for everyone else before we waste a couple pages, Yes it is low brow humor, yes it doesn't belong here in evil dead, and final WHAT ARE THEY DOING GAHHHHHHHHH DAMN THESE WRITERS !!! There i think i saved everyone the trouble of typing out a 10 page essay on why evil dead shouldn't have fart jokes.

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to sabotage your enthusiasm. I'm glad you're exited about it, but this trailer simply does nothing for me. It falls to the category of "look how insanely crazy and bloody and gory this all is", but not much else. I'm not saying I'm not looking forward to the new episodes – and maybe it's just the way this trailer was made, how it's trying to hit only one spot of the show's entertainment spectre, but for me it's just… eeh…

I'm just being a smart-ass/joking around with ya your not ruining anything for me man, The thing i loved the most about it is the sight teases of the new villian,Pablo's stuff and with the look of concern on kelly's face, A broken down ash Williams in a straight jacket, the slight teases of him entering Cheryl's room, and the fight scenes just look insane especially with the delta, the delta episode has the potential to be the best episode this season. The fart joke however was too much IMO i chuckled but i think they could have done without it.
 
Every single line coming out of Ash's mouth on that trailer is bad. Like, astonishingly bad. Seriously, I'd be embarassed to be the writer who came up with those. Yeah, the fart joke is terrible and it's a type of humor that's not only out of character, but also doesn't belong in this franchise. Even the people who don't really mind it seem to admit to that. Yeah, it is just a silly fart joke. That's not the problem. The problem is that every single joke is made out of either sexual or bathroom humor. If it wasn't as constant, I'd probably wouldn't have a problem with the occasional one. Actually, I'm beginning to think that it isn't just a case of bad writing, but a case of having writers that simply aren't a good match for the property. It's a problem of misunderstanding what the property is about and of hiring the wrong people for the job. All this trailer (and the description of that scene from next episode) has done is make me even more worried about the direction they're taking. "Could things get any worse?". Well, Ash... They can, apparently. So much worse. People here on the forums are actually coming up on the spot with a whole bunch of much more interesting ideas and plot developments they could have used, but instead, they choose to spend precious running time on fart jokes and having Ash get shoved up a corpse's ass.

But hey, that opening shot and the shot of Ash running his chainsaw against the side of the Classic are pretty cool. I also liked the shot of Ash in the straightjacket.

These last few posts made me think about what Evil Dead actually is supposed to be and what it is that fans love about it. I enjoy the blood and gore, seeing how outrageous they can get and Bruce Campbell being Bruce Campbell just as much as the next guy, but what made me love Evil Dead so much and stick with it for so long was actually the inventiveness of it all, how original and unpredictable it could get, the silly but very unique brand of humor and camerawork, the unusual character interactions, the incredible music and atmosphere, and seeing the character of Ash evolve from scared and weak nerd to tired common man hero. In my opinion, this show just has a lot of the former and not much from the latter. As crazy, outrageous and silly as it could get there was always a lot of care that went into this franchise, and if I may say, it actually had pretty high standards. This show just isn't Evil Dead enough to me. It's something else entirely and I'm having a really hard time recognizing it as Evil Dead. I guess people just love Evil Dead for very different reasons and that's why opinion on the show is so divided.
 
DyD said:
Every single line coming out of Ash's mouth on that trailer is bad. Like, astonishingly bad. Seriously, I'd be embarassed to be the writer who came up with those. Yeah, the fart joke is terrible and it's a type of humor that's not only out of character, but also doesn't belong in this franchise. Even the people who don't really mind it seem to admit to that. Yeah, it is just a silly fart joke. That's not the problem. The problem is that every single joke is made out of either sexual or bathroom humor. If it wasn't as constant, I'd probably wouldn't have a problem with the occasional one. Actually, I'm beginning to think that it isn't just a case of bad writing, but a case of having writers that simply aren't a good match for the property. It's a problem of misunderstanding what the property is about and of hiring the wrong people for the job. All this trailer (and the description of that scene from next episode) has done is make me even more worried about the direction their taking with this thing. "Could things get any worse?". Well, Ash... They can, apparently. So much worse. People here on the forums are actually coming up on the spot with a whole bunch of much more interesting ideas and plot developments they could have used, but instead, they chose to spend precious running time on fart jokes and having Ash get shoved up a corpse's ass.

But hey, that opening shot and the shot of Ash running his chainsaw against the side of the Classic are pretty cool. I also liked the shot of Ash in the straightjacket.

These last few posts made me think about what Evil Dead actually is supposed to be to fans and what it is that they love about it. I enjoy the blood and gore, seeing how outrageous they can get and Bruce Campbell being Bruce Campbell just as much as the next guy, but what made me love Evil Dead so much and stick with it for so long was actually the inventiveness of it all, how original and unpredictable it could get, the silly but very unique brand of humor and camerawork, the unusual character interactions, the incredible music and atmosphere, and seeing the character of Ash grow from scared and weak nerd to tired common man hero. In my opinion, this show just has a lot of the former and not much from the latter. As crazy, outrageous and silly as it could get there was always a lot of care that went into this franchise, and if I may say, it actually had pretty high standards. I guess people just love Evil Dead for very different reasons and that's why opinion on the show is so divided.

I'd honestly like to know if the answer really is "the writers can't deal with this property and come up with better things" or just "Bruce, Sam, and Rob are pushing then into this direction because it just seems fun in this stage of the franchise".
 
Hurley said:
I'd honestly like to know if the answer really is "the writers can't deal with this property and come up with better things" or just "Bruce, Sam, and Rob are pushing then into this direction because it just seems fun in this stage of the franchise".

I'm gonna say something here that's bound to be controversial and that might very well be completely wrong, but it's been on my mind for years now... I don't think Bruce, Sam and Rob actually care about Evil Dead anymore. To them it's just a brand name they build up from the ground and that they're promoting now because it's become relatively popular. Sam's probably the one who still cares the most about it, but he's probably the least involved with the show creatively. If there's one guy who could take this into the right direction it's him, but I don't think he actually wants to get involved with it too much. He pretty much gave the keys to Starz and the showrunners to do whatever the hell they want with it. Rob doesn't give a damn about the creative side of things and just wants to make money off of the name. Which I'm fine with, as that's his actual job as producer. Now, I honestly think Bruce grew to hate the character of Ash and the name Evil Dead and he's been effectively trying to change it all into something else more akin to his current sensibilities. But none of that is the issue here, as I think who's pushing for this "poop & pot" approach is actually Starz and a very misguided group of showrunners. The Renaissance guys just aren't objecting to any of it.
 
Hurley said:
After watching the episode for a second time, I'm really starting to wonder (if and) how are they gonna address that Ash was never convicted and maybe not even charged with what happened in the cabin. Apparently the whole town knows that Ash killed his friends, his sister, and his girlfriend (for the sake of the argument, let's ignore Annie and the whole group from ED II), and Ash even confessed to it in the pub.

So what's the story here? Was Ash ever investigated or prosecuted? And did he actually ever return to Elk Grove after what happened in the cabin (not to mention we don't really know for how long he was gone when he travelled through time)? I hope the show will address this, for example by saying that no bodies were ever found or not even the cabin was ever located since then (which would explain why Jake's body was still in the cellar after 30 years), and that the case was so strange that some started to wonder whether Ash isn't telling the truth, so they left it unsolved… But I worry that the show will just ignore this whole plot point.

For example in the first season, I was expecting that Amanda will try to find something about the cabin case, but the story never touched on that. So the question is if it even wants to…

Cutlining for some speculation; I doubt it's going to come true but here's my thinking

Judging from Brock's complaints about how Ash ran away from his problems, I'm guessing one of two things: either he plead 
insanity on his lawyer's advice against his own will and got off, then ran (explaining the whole Ashy Slashy thing linking into his being insane) or he jumped bail and left town and has been bouncing around Michigan ever since, as we saw in season 1. 

The thing is that there are definitely remains on the property.   Linda's skull is still in the workshed.  You'd think her family would've wanted her remains back if everyone knows what happened to Ash.  The Evil Dead do melt down when the demon is exiled, though, so IDK if they just stopped looking when Ash said that his sister and best friend dissolved.  Like Muzzlehatch said, there's a lot that could've been played with there.


Sutter Cane said:
MaidOfKandar said:
* I love Kelly when she's being sarcastic and/or killing shit.  I don't like her when she's being sour and unpleasant and biting off more than she can chew like she's Scrappy Doo. They've made her so dour and unpleasant and snippish this season, and while I can't blame her for being any of those things but it's grating to watch constantly.  She needs some kind of layers, maybe SOME softer edges (this doesn't mean I want her damseled).  Even Pablo, who's still his goofy self even though he's turning into Cheryl Mach II still feels like himself.  

I just don't know where they want to go with Kelly's character.  I'm a bit confuse.  She want revenge or not?  I mean the part where her doppelganger appear and tell her she should be the leader.  She's on a power trip now?  Hope they will clarify the main goal of this character.  Because it pointing the same direction as season 1.  She will be the tool of evil to sow discord among the Ghostbeaters.  What a goal... :s

In general, Kelly's just supposed to be very, very angry that her parents were Deadite collateral so she wants Ash to get off his butt and get moving on the whole get rid of them thing but he's stalling.  The Deadite apparition I think is the book's way at poking at her weaknesses, her pride and ego, trying to get her to take over the team and bring her into a battle she's not ready for.

And setting up for the Ruby/Kelly team-up.  I think the ultimate goal is to split the team in pro-Ruby and pro-Ash camps until they realize they have to get off their butts and unite for anything to work.

Nick el Ass said:
Here is the first After Ash review from the folks at Collider for AvED episode Home.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy0MSjFehH8[/video]

They have a nice set-up but I wish their convo was a little deeper/more trenchant.  I think my favorite podcast for the show is the one Obscurus Lupa and Phelous run.

Joem1k said:
https://twitter.com/AshvsEvilDead/status/783364895207153666

Here's the this season on Ash and holy fuck i love this new villain there bringing in !

and before anyone says anything about that joke at the beginning, it is just a fart joke, just side eye and move on. 

Will be back with a full breakdown later but i'm loving what i saw 

Holy shit pablo looks to be embracing the dark side, and man that was a heartbreaking thing to see ash in a straight jack. and there were more teases of ash entering cheryl's room ! 

I'm gonna ignore the fart joke to talk about some of the spoilery things I did notice

Baal calls Ash Ruby's savior.  Hmm!  

Also it looks like Lacey and her boyfriend are the ones who steal the Classic - and that the Deadites eliminate her BF by hubcapping him right through the middle.  

Also Ash goes into Cheryl's room.  I hope that leads somewhere laden with feelings.

I'm wondering how much of Dark side!Pablo is the book just controlling him and how much of it's him using his new powers.  Kelly's look of concern makes me wonder if she's going to draw him back to life the same way Linda's memory worked for Ash.


Also I think that's the Sheriff whose face gets peeled back.

DyD said:
Every single line coming out of Ash's mouth on that trailer is bad. Like, astonishingly bad. Seriously, I'd be embarassed to be the writer who came up with those. Yeah, the fart joke is terrible and it's a type of humor that's not only out of character, but also doesn't belong in this franchise. Even the people who don't really mind it seem to admit to that. Yeah, it is just a silly fart joke. That's not the problem. The problem is that every single joke is made out of either sexual or bathroom humor. If it wasn't as constant, I'd probably wouldn't have a problem with the occasional one. Actually, I'm beginning to think that it isn't just a case of bad writing, but a case of having writers that simply aren't a good match for the property. It's a problem of misunderstanding what the property is about and of hiring the wrong people for the job. All this trailer (and the description of that scene from next episode) has done is make me even more worried about the direction their taking. "Could things get any worse?". Well, Ash... They can, apparently. So much worse. People here on the forums are actually coming up on the spot with a whole bunch of much more interesting ideas and plot developments they could have used, but instead, they choose to spend precious running time on fart jokes and having Ash get shoved up a corpse's ass.

But hey, that opening shot and the shot of Ash running his chainsaw against the side of the Classic are pretty cool. I also liked the shot of Ash in the straightjacket.

These last few posts made me think about what Evil Dead actually is supposed to be and what it is that fans love about it. I enjoy the blood and gore, seeing how outrageous they can get and Bruce Campbell being Bruce Campbell just as much as the next guy, but what made me love Evil Dead so much and stick with it for so long was actually the inventiveness of it all, how original and unpredictable it could get, the silly but very unique brand of humor and camerawork, the unusual character interactions, the incredible music and atmosphere, and seeing the character of Ash evolve from scared and weak nerd to tired common man hero. In my opinion, this show just has a lot of the former and not much from the latter. As crazy, outrageous and silly as it could get there was always a lot of care that went into this franchise, and if I may say, it actually had pretty high standards. This show just isn't Evil Dead enough to me. It's something else entirely and I'm having a really hard time recognizing it as Evil Dead. I guess people just love Evil Dead for very different reasons and that's why opinion on the show is so divided.

I think you hit the nail on the head as to why everyone's so divided - we all want different things out of the show, I think, and some of us are very happy to have what we've gotten, while some of us keep searching for it. 


DyD said:
Hurley said:
I'd honestly like to know if the answer really is "the writers can't deal with this property and come up with better things" or just "Bruce, Sam, and Rob are pushing then into this direction because it just seems fun in this stage of the franchise".

I'm gonna say something here that's bound to be controversial and that might very well be completely wrong, but it's been on my mind for years now... I don't think Bruce, Sam and Rob actually care about Evil Dead anymore. To them it's just a brand name they build up from the ground and that they're promoting now because it's become relatively popular. Sam's probably the one who still cares the most about it, but he's probably the least involved with the show creatively. If there's one guy who could take this into the right direction it's him, but I don't think he actually wants to get involved with it too much. He pretty much gave the keys to Starz and the showrunners to do whatever the hell they want with it. Rob doesn't give a damn about the creative side of things and just wants to make money off of the name. Which I'm fine with, as that's his actual job as producer. Now, I honestly think Bruce grew to hate the character of Ash and the name Evil Dead and he's been effectively trying to change it all into something else more akin to his current sensibilities. But none of that is the issue here, as I think who's pushing for this "poop & pot" approach is actually Starz and a very misguided group of showrunners. The Renaissance guys just aren't objecting to any of it.

IDK -I think they all care about everything to a degree (and Bruce definitely cares about whether or not this fails), but they're going about it...lazily isn't the word I want to use, everyone's working hard, especially the SFX crew, but they're using the laziest plotlines possible.
 
I am quite sure that Bruce totaly cares about this show. If he likes it or not - Ash and Evil Dead are his primary acting legacy and judging from his recent interview statements he seem to acknowledge this more and more. But I guess he is somehow blind for the deeper reasons why the fans love this character so much. In my opinion it is not only the oneliners, the badass weaponery and guts and gore. I think its his blankness. Let me explain: The most beloved version (or the pure, classic version) of the character is ED2 Ash before idiot AoD Ash and nerdy ED1 Ash and, although the second movie tells us nearly nothing about him. We now his girlfriend, his car, that he plays piano and that he is handy with tools. That's it. No background information about his family, his job, his religious or political believes. We do not even know his last name. Hell, he barely speaks in the second movie. So we do not even get that much clues about his charcter traits either. Is he generally friendly and helpful? Is he cocky? Is he an honest and herolike person? Nah, who knows? But in the movie it does not even matter, because this character blankness works for the viewers identification with him. Ash is like the horror version of Chaplin's tramp character. We only know that he is our hero and that he is quite clumsy and vulnerable. That's it. And that's the reason I think why this character and specially this version of the character enjoys such a long standing popularity.

What the show runners try to do now is filling this blankness with new backgrounds. People who generally think of Ash as the loudmouthed jerk from AoD are happy to see his douchebagmeter turned up to 11. But for fans who like to see the movie trilogy as a whole have more problems with it, because it gets more and more inconsistent with early portrayals.
 
@Muzzlehatch - I'll even stand up for AOD Ash and say that his snappiness and toughness is a natural extension of what happens in TED and ED2 after everything he's been through.

I think between ED, ED2 and AOD there are character and personality traits that can be mounted up into a single personality profile. The very worst part of it all is that they think that personality never existed, so they can put together whatever they like.
 
MaidOfKandar said:
@Muzzlehatch - I'll even stand up for AOD Ash and say that his snappiness and toughness is a natural extension of what happens in TED and ED2 after everything he's been through.

I think between ED, ED2 and AOD there are character and personality traits that can be mounted up into a single personality profile.  The very worst part of it all is that they think that personality never existed, so they can put together whatever they like.

I totally agree about the ED-AoD evolution of Ash. I just have the feeling that the show runners neglect most of his decent and redeming qualitiies and treat his AoD bragging and stupidity as his general social mode just for the sake of cheap laughs. I find it to be even more annoying when they expand it with things like racism and perversion, which were never part of his movie character. He never hit on Annie or Bobby-Joe. But when he has to cut up Fisher, he thinks about goggling at her features.
 
Muzzlehatch said:
MaidOfKandar said:
@Muzzlehatch - I'll even stand up for AOD Ash and say that his snappiness and toughness is a natural extension of what happens in TED and ED2 after everything he's been through.

I think between ED, ED2 and AOD there are character and personality traits that can be mounted up into a single personality profile.  The very worst part of it all is that they think that personality never existed, so they can put together whatever they like.

I totally agree about the ED-AoD evolution of Ash. I just have the feeling that the show runners neglect most of his decent and redeming qualitiies and treat his AoD bragging and stupidity as his general social mode just for the sake of cheap laughs. I find it to be even more annoying when they expand it with things like racism and perversion, which were never part of his movie character. He never hit on Annie or Bobby-Joe. But when he has to cut up Fisher, he thinks about goggling at her features.

And on top of that, he actually saves a woman from skeleton rape in AOD.  In AOD he's solely focused on Sheila until he returns to the modern world and even then there's just one woman he's into.  Nothing about those versions of Ash suggest he'd end up this way.

I think that's why they're doing it.  The trouble is humor is subjective.
 
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