AvED is more comedy than horror, and you're comparing it to two straight drama's with much larger casts of core characters.
This story is about Ash, his two sidekicks, and Ruby. It's a pretty small group and there's barely enough time to develop them in a season, let alone a revolving cast of new core characters.
Besides, you said it, they killed Amanda. They are likely to kill Brock and Chet as well.
AvED is more comedy than horror, and you're comparing it to two straight drama's with much larger casts of core characters.
This story is about Ash, his two sidekicks, and Ruby. It's a pretty small group and there's barely enough time to develop them in a season, let alone a revolving cast of new core characters.
Besides, you said it, they killed Amanda. They are likely to kill Brock and Chet as well.
I think it's a bit harsh and unfair to say a show is being ruined just by two character's in general, plus every time i look or see reviews or general reactions for GoT or Walking dead they tend to have major problems with either changing the source material, dragging out a plot that should have ended last season, or hyping up a huge event that end's up being watered down and turned into a cliffhanger (Looking at you walking dead), so i really don't see where your drawing the comparison's here from those two shows.
That is the one major thing i love about this show is that they don't overstay there welcome and manage to keep a cohesive plot outline through the entire season while also planting plot and character seeds for the future, as for brock and chet dieing well, i'm not gonna make any bold predictions cause i have a feeling this upcoming season everyone's gonna be fair game to dieing, but i rank brock chet and linda high up on that list of dieing.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
eViL DeAdiTe said:
Gonna have to disagree.
AvED is more comedy than horror, and you're comparing it to two straight drama's with much larger casts of core characters.
This story is about Ash, his two sidekicks, and Ruby. It's a pretty small group and there's barely enough time to develop them in a season, let alone a revolving cast of new core characters.
Besides, you said it, they killed Amanda. They are likely to kill Brock and Chet as well.
Many people who watch TV have unhealthy obsessions about anything changing, but it's the story that matters.
- Kelly just plays a typical assertive female and can be replaced by any girl. Bond girl.
- Pablo plays mediocre comic relief and can be replaced by any walk-on. Taxi driver, janitor, kid, college student, etc.
- Ruby is some demon thing so she should get banished/killed after a while. Baal or whatever evil thing.
The story is about Ash, not demons or teens--that's why the Evil Dead remake didn't do that well.
Sure if they want a dragged out Hercules sitcom that degrades rapidly they can attempt to rehash and not be innovative.
But TV and film is much more competitive today than it was in the 90's--GoT and The Walking Dead and millions of Youtube/Vines/Netflix.
Plus first seasons have the strengths of being new and leaning on the pilot.
After that you need to get lean and real about where you're heading and how you're going to get there--or your next season will just disappear over night.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Ashenwraith said:
eViL DeAdiTe said:
Gonna have to disagree.
AvED is more comedy than horror, and you're comparing it to two straight drama's with much larger casts of core characters.
This story is about Ash, his two sidekicks, and Ruby. It's a pretty small group and there's barely enough time to develop them in a season, let alone a revolving cast of new core characters.
Besides, you said it, they killed Amanda. They are likely to kill Brock and Chet as well.
Many people who watch TV have unhealthy obsessions about anything changing, but it's the story that matters.
- Kelly just plays a typical assertive female and can be replaced by any girl. Bond girl.
- Pablo plays mediocre comic relief and can be replaced by any walk-on. Taxi driver, janitor, kid, college student, etc.
- Ruby is some demon thing so she should get banished/killed after a while. Baal or whatever evil thing.
The story is about Ash, not demons or teens--that's why the Evil Dead remake didn't do that well.
Sure if they want a dragged out Hercules sitcom that degrades rapidly they can continue with what they're doing.
TV and film is much more competitive today than it was in the 90's--GoT and The Walking Dead and millions of Youtube/Vines/Netflix.
Plus first seasons have the strengths of being new and leaning on the pilot.
After that you need to get lean and real about where you're heading and how you're going to get there--or your next season will just disappear over night.
-The main story is still very much about Ash and the book so i have no idea where your getting that it isn't.
-Ruby has been clarified as a dark one on the show very clearly and is connected with the book in a major way, she is not just some "demon" neither is baal
-Pablo is more then just a comic relief character and he counter balance's ash's bad behaviors, and for the most part is voice of reason and heart of the group plus also brings a new dynamic with his shamanism background which i found to be very interesting and is also the teams engineer for making stuff out of nothing,granted his development get's sidelined at the middle part of season 1, he still has a lot more to him then just being a comic relief and i have a feeling season 2 is going to be the season where he get's looked at more as a character even if it's just in short bursts.
-Kelly is more then just a assertive female character (Really a bond girl ?), i felt she was the most developed character of season 1 and by the end of the first season i really felt that kelly was a changed person with all she went through with them and by the end of it is basically a woman on mission to avenge her parent's deaths and is wanting to end it.
-I just wanna also point out that nerconomicon is very demon centric and if i remember correctly the main demon of the book is called KANDARIAN DEMON and has been called that since the first evil dead.
And i'm still having trouble with the walking dead and GoT comparisons, they are very different and there not trying to be those show's or compete with them at all, I would rather have them be themselves then something there not. Season 1 did have major problems with it's writing and effects, but it was still a very fun and entertaining ride for a first season and really was only the tip of the iceberg and i have a feeling season 2 is going to be a big expansion and hopefully with polish out some of the glaring problems s1 had and so far from what's been seen it's shaping up to be one helluva season.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Joem1k said:
Gonna have to disagree with you again.
-The main story is still very much about Ash and the book so i have no idea where your getting that it isn't.
-Ruby has been clarified as a dark one on the show very clearly and is connected with the book in a major way, she is not just some "demon" neither is baal
-Pablo is more then just a comic relief character and he counter balance's ash's bad behaviors, and for the most part is voice of reason and heart of the group plus also brings a new dynamic with his shamanism background which i found to be very interesting and is also the teams engineer for making stuff out of nothing,granted his development get's sidelined at the middle part of season 1, he still has a lot more to him then just being a comic relief and i have a feeling season 2 is going to be the season where he get's looked at more as a character even if it's just in short bursts.
-Kelly is more then just a assertive female character (Really a bond girl ?), i felt she was the most developed character of season 1 and by the end of the first season i really felt that kelly was a changed person with all she went through with them and by the end of it is basically a woman on mission to avenge her parent's deaths and is wanting to end it.
-I just wanna also point out that nerconomicon is very demon centric and if i remember correctly the main demon of the book is called KANDARIAN DEMON and has been called that since the first evil dead.
And i'm still having trouble with the walking dead and GoT comparisons, they are very different and there not trying to be those show's or compete with them at all, I would rather have them be themselves then something there not. Season 1 did have major problems with it's writing and effects, but it was still a very fun and entertaining ride for a first season and really was only the tip of the iceberg and i have a feeling season 2 is going to be a big expansion and hopefully with polish out some of the glaring problems s1 had and so far from what's been seen it's shaping up to be one helluva season.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Ashenwraith said:
Joem1k said:
Gonna have to disagree with you again.
-The main story is still very much about Ash and the book so i have no idea where your getting that it isn't.
-Ruby has been clarified as a dark one on the show very clearly and is connected with the book in a major way, she is not just some "demon" neither is baal
-Pablo is more then just a comic relief character and he counter balance's ash's bad behaviors, and for the most part is voice of reason and heart of the group plus also brings a new dynamic with his shamanism background which i found to be very interesting and is also the teams engineer for making stuff out of nothing,granted his development get's sidelined at the middle part of season 1, he still has a lot more to him then just being a comic relief and i have a feeling season 2 is going to be the season where he get's looked at more as a character even if it's just in short bursts.
-Kelly is more then just a assertive female character (Really a bond girl ?), i felt she was the most developed character of season 1 and by the end of the first season i really felt that kelly was a changed person with all she went through with them and by the end of it is basically a woman on mission to avenge her parent's deaths and is wanting to end it.
-I just wanna also point out that nerconomicon is very demon centric and if i remember correctly the main demon of the book is called KANDARIAN DEMON and has been called that since the first evil dead.
And i'm still having trouble with the walking dead and GoT comparisons, they are very different and there not trying to be those show's or compete with them at all, I would rather have them be themselves then something there not. Season 1 did have major problems with it's writing and effects, but it was still a very fun and entertaining ride for a first season and really was only the tip of the iceberg and i have a feeling season 2 is going to be a big expansion and hopefully with polish out some of the glaring problems s1 had and so far from what's been seen it's shaping up to be one helluva season.
If were getting business sense here then yes i see your point and i sort of agree with you on them wanting to tap into the Horror genre, but TWD is more of drama show then horror yes it has horror elements but it's foremost a drama show, GoT is a drama fantasy show. AvED is tapping into horror and comedy demographic's while GoT and TWD are tapping into people who love drama shows while also bringing in the horror fans and fantasy fans.
you got me there, hopefully this move to sundays will be a move in the right direction if the viewership from the marathon they aired during comic con was any indication it could be a step in the right direction for this show but like i said we'll see what happens.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Joe m1k said:
I can now confirm the director's and writers for this season with this link as starz already has them listed on the main site, which is where i'm gonna guess is where the person who edited the wiki got it from.
It's interesting to note who they brought back this season and who they declined to bring back; no Frazee at all, I wonder if they blame him for the reception of the CGI in the Kelly possession scenes.
The line up of writers continues to interest me.
Joem1k said:
Here's our first look at the main demon for this season, named "Baal" played by Joel Tobeck
This season is starting to really shape up here to be something very interesting and is starting to really make season 1 look very bare bones in comparison, here's the press release info as well
"[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Hell has come to earth as Starz gives a sneak peek of the character Baal, played by Joel Tobeck (“Sons of Anarchy,” The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King) who appears in season two of the series. When Baal is released from the underworld, our team will face an enemy more powerful then then any that have come before. One with bigger plans than just destroying Ash as well as a secret link to Ruby (Lucy Lawless). It was recently announced that Season 2 will premiere Sunday, October 2 at 8:00PM ET."[/font]
I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of Ruby's presence...well, being depowered. It's bad enough she's come back to Ash begging for help, now we have to deal with the guy who's probably her ex-boyfriend being more overpowered than she is
RE the entry and the way things might link into the episode titles linked above
According to Francis Barrett he has the power to make those who invoke him invisible
Episode 7 is "delusion." Hmm.
He's also got a huge demon army behind him, which might explain the military imagery of the last episode revealed in those interviews Bruce did awhile back. They have him in the ad saying 'I'm building an army of darkness', so there you go. Ash and his comrades apparently get to go military in the last couple of episodes and blow up some demons.
Joem1k said:
The episode titles have been finally revealed through wikipedia, take it with a grain a salt though as they could be made up.
It's intriguing to me how clearly each title lines up to story beats we've been let in on, versus how much episode 1's generally hid.
2 is the intestine strangulation episode, 3's likely set in Chet's bar and has the bullriding scene, 4 is Linda going in on a DUI and Ash seeing her in prison and sawing up the guard, 5 the insane asylum episode, etc.
Joem1k said:
I was going to post those when they came out but i felt those last two videos contained huge spoilers/big hints, but overall i loved these commercials as they are very tongue in cheek, Baal's and the last two are probably my favorite out of the bunch.
Tanya and Knowby's videos makes me wonder if we won't be time traveling near the end of this season as tanya's clothing is very retro looking.
RE the commercials - I wonder if they released these early by mistake because man, do they pretty much spoil what's going to happen in the last few episodes of the season.
Baal is going to raise a second AOD, Ash and co are going to go military to defeat it, we get either a flashback to how the book was read or they try to go back in time to stop Knowby from reading it. My big question - how the hell are they going to explain away Tanya's existence? All of the ED2 flashbacks clearly show Knowby and Henrietta alone at the cabin when Knowby read the incantation. There was no extra skeleton in the basement beyond Jake's.
IMO, a disappointing plot choice because the show keeps retreading old material. It was passable when they revisited the cabin (though they didn't milk that for nearly as much juice as they should have/could have) but replaying AOD with presumably a smaller army and more blood screams easy nostalgic cash cowage.
Also Lucy Lawless slayed every single moment of her commercial.
Does anyone have the name of the actor who plays the sheriff and who's playing Knowby this time out?
eViL DeAdiTe said:
Ashenwraith said:
If neither Pablo nor Kelly get killed/leave this season than they are ruining the series.
To keep up the horror element non-walk on characters have to die.
Season 1 was getting goofy with the obviousness every walk-on you knew was going to die--the only surprise was the cop dying.
This is a big part of what actually made Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead popular, it's not rocket science.
AvED is more comedy than horror, and you're comparing it to two straight drama's with much larger casts of core characters.
This story is about Ash, his two sidekicks, and Ruby. It's a pretty small group and there's barely enough time to develop them in a season, let alone a revolving cast of new core characters.
Besides, you said it, they killed Amanda. They are likely to kill Brock and Chet as well.
IMO, you don't need to kill off Ruby, Kelly or Pablo to prove the stakes are high and anyone can die. It's a franchise staple for the first two movies, sure, but in AOD all of the major characters live while a lot of minor characters die.
A lot of different things have made TWD and GOT popular - and a lot of things have lead to AvED's mediocre reception. Since I consider GOT to be rather a different case (it's a fantasy show and TWD/AOD are horror and horror/comedy) I won't contrast/compare here; they may all share a target demo (men 18-45, I presume) but then again so does GOT, Family Guy and Monday Night Football. For one thing, TWD has better gore effects than season one of AvED; they definitely have better writers and they arguably have better acting. TWD also manages to appeal to more demos than the single demo AvED desperately keeps trying to target (fratboys in their twenties judging from their embarrassing social media presence; they've actually successfully drawn in people in their thirties-forties, which is why the show is popular on Facebook and persona non grata on Twitter and other social media sites); women, for instance, and older teenagers.
Then again every time Bruce compares TWD with AvED I quietly facepalm because I hate that comparison so much.
In any event they did try to shock the audience with Amanda's death. They weren't very good at hiding various spoilers, though, that made it pretty clear she was toast.
(And now thanks to Joe I'm going to close my response with who I think'll bite it in this coming season).
Joem1k said:
Ashenwraith said:
eViL DeAdiTe said:
Gonna have to disagree.
AvED is more comedy than horror, and you're comparing it to two straight drama's with much larger casts of core characters.
This story is about Ash, his two sidekicks, and Ruby. It's a pretty small group and there's barely enough time to develop them in a season, let alone a revolving cast of new core characters.
Besides, you said it, they killed Amanda. They are likely to kill Brock and Chet as well.
Many people who watch TV have unhealthy obsessions about anything changing, but it's the story that matters.
- Kelly just plays a typical assertive female and can be replaced by any girl. Bond girl.
- Pablo plays mediocre comic relief and can be replaced by any walk-on. Taxi driver, janitor, kid, college student, etc.
- Ruby is some demon thing so she should get banished/killed after a while. Baal or whatever evil thing.
The story is about Ash, not demons or teens--that's why the Evil Dead remake didn't do that well.
Sure if they want a dragged out Hercules sitcom that degrades rapidly they can continue with what they're doing.
TV and film is much more competitive today than it was in the 90's--GoT and The Walking Dead and millions of Youtube/Vines/Netflix.
Plus first seasons have the strengths of being new and leaning on the pilot.
After that you need to get lean and real about where you're heading and how you're going to get there--or your next season will just disappear over night.
-The main story is still very much about Ash and the book so i have no idea where your getting that it isn't.
-Ruby has been clarified as a dark one on the show very clearly and is connected with the book in a major way, she is not just some "demon" neither is baal
-Pablo is more then just a comic relief character and he counter balance's ash's bad behaviors, and for the most part is voice of reason and heart of the group plus also brings a new dynamic with his shamanism background which i found to be very interesting and is also the teams engineer for making stuff out of nothing,granted his development get's sidelined at the middle part of season 1, he still has a lot more to him then just being a comic relief and i have a feeling season 2 is going to be the season where he get's looked at more as a character even if it's just in short bursts.
-Kelly is more then just a assertive female character (Really a bond girl ?), i felt she was the most developed character of season 1 and by the end of the first season i really felt that kelly was a changed person with all she went through with them and by the end of it is basically a woman on mission to avenge her parent's deaths and is wanting to end it.
-I just wanna also point out that nerconomicon is very demon centric and if i remember correctly the main demon of the book is called KANDARIAN DEMON and has been called that since the first evil dead.
And i'm still having trouble with the walking dead and GoT comparisons, they are very different and there not trying to be those show's or compete with them at all, I would rather have them be themselves then something there not. Season 1 did have major problems with it's writing and effects, but it was still a very fun and entertaining ride for a first season and really was only the tip of the iceberg and i have a feeling season 2 is going to be a big expansion and hopefully with polish out some of the glaring problems s1 had and so far from what's been seen it's shaping up to be one helluva season.
I think it's interesting how much you seem to miss the Ash-as-lone-survivor-battling the elements part of the franchise, AW. It used to be a huge part of the series, and in the show there's barely been more than a scene of him trying to fight back the supernatural alone.
IMO, Pablo is the only reason I'm even close to being invested in this show anymore. If anything, Ash's antics are turning into comic relief for the shit Pablo has to survive, which is odd to say but true.
That's probably going to change this season now that they're unearthing the stuff with Cheryl, at least.
What they've done to Ash's character keeps edging me closer and closer to anti-stanning him in this universe and for me that's been the worst of all of the narrative choices they've made. Sometimes I like him. Sometimes he's a guy who jokes about necrophilia and gets stoned and reads the Necronomicon.
Kelly's character keeps suffering from flanderisation; she's angry and snarky, and it's understandable but she needs a couple more layers like Pablo (I agree that she's not a Bond girl type, nor disposable).
Also, as the biggest Evil Dead remake detractor in the known universe, even I have to acknowledge it made back its money and was profitable. Was it a blockbuster? Nope. Was it overshadowed by the birth of the Conjuring franchise? Yep. Was it very memorable to the general audience? Nope. Did it create a cult fandom within the fandom? Yep. There's an audience that still clamors for Ash to meet Mia in every single AvED article in existence.
Joem1k said:
Ashenwraith said:
Joem1k said:
Gonna have to disagree with you again.
-The main story is still very much about Ash and the book so i have no idea where your getting that it isn't.
-Ruby has been clarified as a dark one on the show very clearly and is connected with the book in a major way, she is not just some "demon" neither is baal
-Pablo is more then just a comic relief character and he counter balance's ash's bad behaviors, and for the most part is voice of reason and heart of the group plus also brings a new dynamic with his shamanism background which i found to be very interesting and is also the teams engineer for making stuff out of nothing,granted his development get's sidelined at the middle part of season 1, he still has a lot more to him then just being a comic relief and i have a feeling season 2 is going to be the season where he get's looked at more as a character even if it's just in short bursts.
-Kelly is more then just a assertive female character (Really a bond girl ?), i felt she was the most developed character of season 1 and by the end of the first season i really felt that kelly was a changed person with all she went through with them and by the end of it is basically a woman on mission to avenge her parent's deaths and is wanting to end it.
-I just wanna also point out that nerconomicon is very demon centric and if i remember correctly the main demon of the book is called KANDARIAN DEMON and has been called that since the first evil dead.
And i'm still having trouble with the walking dead and GoT comparisons, they are very different and there not trying to be those show's or compete with them at all, I would rather have them be themselves then something there not. Season 1 did have major problems with it's writing and effects, but it was still a very fun and entertaining ride for a first season and really was only the tip of the iceberg and i have a feeling season 2 is going to be a big expansion and hopefully with polish out some of the glaring problems s1 had and so far from what's been seen it's shaping up to be one helluva season.
If were getting business sense here then yes i see your point and i sort of agree with you on them wanting to tap into the Horror genre, but TWD is more of drama show then horror yes it has horror elements but it's foremost a drama show, GoT is a drama fantasy show. AvED is tapping into the horror and comedy demographic's while GoT and TWD are tapping into people who love drama shows while also bringing in the horror fans and fantasy fans.
Yes they may be on the same night this year with TWD and other shows but starz is not competing with them or any show during those hours as there airing the show a hour earlier to them, if they were wanting to compete they would have put it in the same time slot as them.
The thing is, business-wise TWD definitely played into Starz' choice to pick up AvED (as much as Bruce constantly insists it was their "choice" to go with Starz because they said they wouldn't put content restrictions on them you can't tell me they didn't pitch this show to basic cable and Showtime/Cinemax/HBO); two years ago horror in general started having a huge revival which also made them seem an attractive option. But the remake's general success was also a factor. Then Starz committed to more of the show on the belief that the 10 million people who watched the trailer were somehow going to show up for the show only to have a fraction of them actually show up for the premiere. Views on the trailer have fallen right into line with the actual viewers the show has, which makes me wonder why Bruce thinks viewership will explode if they agree to doing two more seasons.
Also bringing up GOT and zombies drags this into the whole 'are White Walkers zombies?' area.
((Also Deadites are not zombies))
ETA: my who-will-bite-it predictions:
My money's currently on Linda 2 (lack of coverage in the promos are reminding me of how they treated
Amanda) and possibly Brock (for the angst and drama). My other guess is that Chet dies but becomes a Deadite and lives on into the next season as a half-living being.
I also have a weird feeling about Kelly this season but I'm not willing to commit and say she's going to bite it.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
@Maid
honestly i wouldn't actually mind if it goes full blown bat-shit crazy AOD style for the finale where it's just a all out war between ash and his gang vs Baal and his army which bruce and dana have let it slip that Evil Kelly and Evil ash will be appearing so it makes me wonder if that won't be when they show up. And we could see the possibility of ash being that leader again like he was in AOD even if it's treading old ground it will be awesome to see that side of him once again and fully take charge and kick some serious ass.
From here on out i'm going to be a bit more careful with the info i post as i don't wanna ruin s2 for anyone with major spoilers.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Dude, no worries about posting a ton of spoilers here, especially major ones; that's what the thread is for, and folks know what they're getting into when they click on the link, no one's getting their experience ruined by clicking the topic.
I'm wondering if Baal is going to turn himself into a Bad Ash-style figure and then there's unpleasantness with Kelly, resulting in a Bad Kelly clone. Unless he Deadite-ifies the already-dead Ash clone from the morgue. In any event Kelly = Bad Sheila amalgam and Evil Ash = Bad Ash here. Will Kelly come back for Pablo the way Sheila came back for Ash, is my question.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
MaidOfKandar said:
Dude, no worries about posting a ton of spoilers here, especially major ones; that's what the thread is for, and folks know what they're getting into when they click on the link, and no one's getting their experience ruined by clicking the topic.
I'm wondering if Baal is going to turn himself into a Bad Ash-style figure and then there's unpleasantness with Kelly, resulting in a Bad Kelly clone. Unless he Deadite-ifies the already-dead Ash clone from the morgue. In any event Kelly = Bad Sheila amalgam and Evil Ash = Bad Ash here. Will Kelly come back for Pablo the way Sheila came back for Ash, is my question.
That would be interesting if they played that parallel with pablo and kelly's relationship,
Quick theory
i wonder if by the end of this season ruby teaches pablo how to control some of the necronomicon's powers or ablities being that his mentally tied with it and that helps there team get the upperhand against baal that would be quite something if that were the case . Don't wanna get myself too hyped given this shows half hour format so hopefully they address and explore enough stuff with there main cast this season within the time frame there given and they resolve some character arcs for this season.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
GoT blends Fantasy with Zombies like AVED attempts to blend Comedy with Zombies. GoT began with Zombies and it will end with epic zombie battles (white walkers are a form of magical-ice undead that magically control zombies.). It's going to be like TWD on steroids.
Zombies have always been popular but TWD came in after Sony threw about a $ billion (billions?) globally behind marketing/producing Resident Evil.
At the end of the day, GoT is actually about as funny as AVED, plus they also have Fantasy.
And none of the characters have to regularly humiliate themselves like Ash does for being a 'privileged white male'. In EP08 they make him racist/chavunistic/weak, then they have him practically make-out with a black chick in some obviously awkward forced relationship.
Every time they deviate from the source material of the movies the show is bad.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Ashenwraith said:
eViL DeAdiTe said:
Gonna have to disagree.
AvED is more comedy than horror, and you're comparing it to two straight drama's with much larger casts of core characters.
This story is about Ash, his two sidekicks, and Ruby. It's a pretty small group and there's barely enough time to develop them in a season, let alone a revolving cast of new core characters.
Besides, you said it, they killed Amanda. They are likely to kill Brock and Chet as well.
Many people who watch TV have unhealthy obsessions about anything changing, but it's the story that matters.
- Kelly just plays a typical assertive female and can be replaced by any girl. Bond girl.
- Pablo plays mediocre comic relief and can be replaced by any walk-on. Taxi driver, janitor, kid, college student, etc.
- Ruby is some demon thing so she should get banished/killed after a while. Baal or whatever evil thing.
The story is about Ash, not demons or teens--that's why the Evil Dead remake didn't do that well.
Sure if they want a dragged out Hercules sitcom that degrades rapidly they can attempt to rehash and not be innovative.
But TV and film is much more competitive today than it was in the 90's--GoT and The Walking Dead and millions of Youtube/Vines/Netflix.
Plus first seasons have the strengths of being new and leaning on the pilot.
After that you need to get lean and real about where you're heading and how you're going to get there--or your next season will just disappear over night.
I find that most people who watch tv are looking for good stories, compelling characters, and a little action to spice things up from time to time. Aside from those who watch stuff like NCSI in which every episode is very formulaic, and boring as hell to watch which is part of the reason why the Evil Dead remake failed even though it made plenty of money at the box office. Aside from Jane Levy the rest of the cast didn't fair so well, and therefor it just wasn't very memorable. At any rate, I'm not sure what you mean by calling Kelly a typical when most Bond Girls (as you brought up) from what I have seen they are just a little eye candy which is not the case with Kelly as she has proven she can hold her own at times. Plus she and Pablo are more of a team, and balance things out pretty well with each other as well as with Ash. So I don't want to see either of them go anytime soon, and definitely not just for the sake of change and/or just so it can be The Ash Show. The Evil Dead is and always will be as much about Ash as it is about those who are around him, and how he interacts with them for better... or for worse. Usually they end up in bad shape somewhere down the line, and there is no need to rush things here, hehe.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Ashenwraith said:
GoT blends Fantasy with Zombies like AVED attempts to blend Comedy with Zombies. GoT began with Zombies and it will end with epic zombie battles (white walkers are a form of magical-ice undead that magically control zombies.). It's going to be like TWD on steroids.
Zombies have always been popular but TWD came in after Sony threw about a $ billion (billions?) globally behind marketing/producing Resident Evil.
At the end of the day, GoT is actually about as funny as AVED, plus they also have Fantasy.
And none of the characters have to regularly humiliate themselves like Ash does for being a 'privileged white male'. In EP08 they make him racist/chavunistic/weak, then they have him practically make-out with a black chick in some obviously awkward forced relationship.
Every time they deviate from the source material of the movies the show is bad.
i uhh.... *sigh* [img=200x143]http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Steve-Carell-Facepalm.gif[/img]
Alright man sure whatever you say, Everything is zombies and GoT is a comedy show that has zombies on steroids and deadites are zombies now, yep understood.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Joem1k said:
MaidOfKandar said:
Dude, no worries about posting a ton of spoilers here, especially major ones; that's what the thread is for, and folks know what they're getting into when they click on the link, and no one's getting their experience ruined by clicking the topic.
I'm wondering if Baal is going to turn himself into a Bad Ash-style figure and then there's unpleasantness with Kelly, resulting in a Bad Kelly clone. Unless he Deadite-ifies the already-dead Ash clone from the morgue. In any event Kelly = Bad Sheila amalgam and Evil Ash = Bad Ash here. Will Kelly come back for Pablo the way Sheila came back for Ash, is my question.
That would be interesting if they played that parallel with pablo and kelly's relationship,
Quick theory
i wonder if by the end of this season ruby teaches pablo how to control some of the necronomicon's powers or ablities being that his mentally tied with it and that helps there team get the upperhand against baal that would be quite something if that were the case . Don't wanna get myself too hyped given this shows half hour format so hopefully they address and explore enough stuff with there main cast this season within the time frame there given and they resolve some character arcs for this season.
That'd be interesting, though all I really want them to do something with his brujo powers at this point. Maybe combine the Nec's might and his brujo training? They need to fish or cut bait on that stuff.
Ashenwraith said:
GoT blends Fantasy with Zombies like AVED attempts to blend Comedy with Zombies. GoT began with Zombies and it will end with epic zombie battles (white walkers are a form of magical-ice undead that magically control zombies.). It's going to be like TWD on steroids.
Zombies have always been popular but TWD came in after Sony threw about a $ billion (billions?) globally behind marketing/producing Resident Evil.
At the end of the day, GoT is actually about as funny as AVED, plus they also have Fantasy.
And none of the characters have to regularly humiliate themselves like Ash does for being a 'privileged white male'. In EP08 they make him racist/chavunistic/weak, then they have him practically make-out with a black chick in some obviously awkward forced relationship.
Every time they deviate from the source material of the movies the show is bad.
Deadites are still not zombies, though. They're demon-possessed human beings controlled by ancient demons who want to inflict as much pain on humanity as possible.
Also the bajillion people I know who watch GOT do not watch it because it's a 'zombie show'. They may watch it for its occasional flickers of humor but what ties it all together is the way the show got people emotionally invested in its characters, like the Starks, Tyrion and Daenerys . What's made AvED weaker is that it's not done enough character building (at Bruce's repeated request) to keep things at a lighter and more facile level, though I will argue that they've done a fairly good job at making Kelly and Pablo sympathetic.
They did do that RE the money spent on the RE movies but it hasn't turned out that well for them. Have the last few made back their money? I like Milla Jovovich but I don't follow the series regularly. But I wouldn't argue that TWD is a result of Resident Evil's existence, as Universal has plenty of horror properties they could've developed instead of TWD.
While I agree that the way they treat Ash in the show is sometimes unnecessarily cringeworthy and has been given the idiot ball even more than he was in the original trilogy and I feel like they've taken the character a couple of steps in the wrong direction, he's not being punished for being a straight white dude by the narrative. It's interesting that you site episode 8, and not 1, 2, 6, 7 or 9 where the majority of the "Ash is a terrible skirt chasing stoner" material played out (8 is where Amanda dies and they less make-out than he gives her a farewell kiss while dying). Pablo watched his uncle die, was enchanted by the Nec and was forced to puke up demon fetuses and he's latino; Kelly was possessed by a demon, nearly killed, and was forced to watch her mother die and she's a woman. Amanda died and she was a black woman. The other characters suffer just as much as he does and are humiliated in other, nasty ways. The shit writing is what wrecked the Amanda and Ash thing more than anything, but that's less them trying to have their cake and eat it too re diversity than the show being awful at applying its resources.
The thing is that when they lean too heavily on the movies it just feels like they're repeating everything over and over again. The other characters at least provide opportunities for new horizons.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
I've been lurking for a while, checking out the spoilers and seeing what other people thought about this series. I really love the franchise, particularly the movies, and being perfectly honest I was quite disappointed on the whole with season 1. Season 2 doesn't look like it's going to make me much happier either...anyway I preface my comments by saying this is only my opinion and I mean no offense to those who genuinely enjoy the show. AvED came across to me as an unfortunate mash-up of Supernatural and That 70's Show during season 1, borrowing heavily from Supernatural. Now I understand that we're going to be treated to Ash and his daddy issues (it's either supposed to be hilarious or provoke sympathy,maybe both, but I feel like it won't do either) not to mention the side characters and their respective trips. I was always really a fan of the first 2 films, although I do love AOD, and I think somebody mentioned something in an earlier post about the lack of "Ash battling alone against the elements" or something of that nature in AvED. That is definitely a huge aspect of Evil Dead that I miss in this series. The first time I watched Evil Dead 2 it reminded me of one of my favorite short stories, I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream by Harlan Ellison, in a darkly comedic way, and I remember thinking how much I enjoyed the idea of the lone character being constantly tormented in increasingly bizarre ways. Now I'm perfectly willing to say that's my own screwy sense of humor, but I was hoping for something like that in season 1 and from what I gather it is unlikely to happen in season 2. I'm also bothered by this new trend of having demon possessed individuals who appear as normal humans (way too reminiscent of Supernatural). One of my favorite things about ED and ED2 is the deadites...they weren't like anything I'd seen elsewhere, they felt formidable even in the more comedic circumstances of ED2. In AvED they're no longer nearly unstoppable killing machines and are basically relegated to the status of 'easily dispatched minions'. This wouldn't really be so bad if we had decent 'bad guys' coming in to take up the slack, but so far most of the new 'demons' introduced (Elligos, Ruby, apparently Baal now) feel uncomfortably derivative of other franchises (Hellraiser, Supernatural). Another issue I've had is the rampant drug use in the show, bear in mind I am a dedicated stoner and lover of stoner comedies, but I find it gratuitous. Smoking pot out of a shotgun, tapping a keg with a chainsaw...AOD didn't need that nonsense to be delightfully bizarre, those scenes are straight-up asinine. I guess at the end of the day it's not so much that I feel they're straying from the aspects of Evil Dead I love most, it's that the new material seems really half-assed. Speaking of idiot stoners, I kind of feel like I just bought a bag of oregano for $60 when I watch this show. Ok, I'm done being super pessimistic now, just had to get that off my chest.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Life_Gets_Teejus said:
I really love the franchise, particularly the movies, and being perfectly honest I was quite disappointed on the whole with season 1. Season 2 doesn't look like it's going to make me much happier either...
Don't worry, you're not alone. I agree with everything you said in your post, word for word. You echoed my sentiments about the show perfectly. I feel you hit the nail on the head with your "$60 bag of oregano" analogy. This thing is being sold to me as Evil Dead, and even though there's some stuff in there that might pass for it, it's not exactly what I've come to expect from it.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
There are definitely good, if not great things in Ash vs Evil Dead, but the last 7 months actually helped me to better understand what main problems I have whit this show. For me, the Evil Dead films (mostly the first two) are so appealing, because they can be funny and scary at the same time. Because of how bizarre they can be with their humor, and how they can work with fantasy lore in their slasher horror genre (mostly ED II and Army). And most of all, I love it because it's essentially a tragedy. It's a story about a guy that survives trough hell only to be then thrown into something much worse. Not necessarily by his own doing, but mostly by the overall rules this twisted world works by (I admit Army of Darkness challenges this formula a bit, but it still is within its limits).
But when I look at Ash vs Evil Dead, this show is basically about only two things: 1) Ash is a stupid badass antihero with somewhat good quotes sometimes and he's so stupid oh god look how stupid he is, it's all his fault but we still love him lol, and 2) this show is bloody oh my god you wouldn't believe how insanely bloody this show is this is insane this is just too much but we'll still try to be even more insanely bloody the next time.
There is only one episode in the first season that i really love and that is episode eight, because that is the only one that understands the themes of the films as well as Ash's character the same way I do. The other episodes I like more (2, 6) or less (3, 9), or I don't like them at all (7). The first and last episodes LOOK the most Evil Dead, but in the end they don't work for me because of the story revolving around Ash.
The reason I'm writing this is that I realised that this forum is basically the only place I can share these thoughts. As I said earlier on few occasions, I'm from Czech Republic and last year I actually made a Czech AvED website. I was writing news, articles about movies or interesting stuff from the episodes that we discussed here also, and I was also making Czech subtitles for the first season. However when I tried to write something about my problems with the show, nobody cared. Nobody saw it the same way. It was then I realised that from all the people visiting my website and watching the show, I was the one having the least fun with it. Everybody else came on board with it (mostly not knowing the films or remembering them really vaguely) and who can actually blame them, if this show clearly isn't doing anything the main trio (Raimi, Tapert, Campbell) wouldn't want it to do? Where is the argument there? Why shouldn't it simply just be me who doesn't understand this show?
So I decided I'll give the website and the subtitle making to people who maybe don't know that much about the movies, but who enjoy the series much more than I do. I am still looking for season two and of course I'm still gonna watch it, but I'm worried that I won't ever be able to tune to the wavelength the show wants me to, even though pretty much everybody else already did. And I don't even mind actually.
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
MaidOfKandar said:
Deadites are still not zombies, though. They're demon-possessed human beings controlled by ancient demons who want to inflict as much pain on humanity as possible.
