Ash Vs Evil Dead S01E01: El Jefe Discussion [SPOILERS]

Gut0nez said:
Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that Ash is not El Jefe. I'm so confident in this that I'd probably be disappointed if he actually turned out to be the real thing. That would seem too much like a rehash of ED 2's plot, without the surprise element. They're also going out of their way to say that it could be Amanda, with that first deadite pointing at her and saying "we know who you are" and everything. Personally, I'd love it if they pulled a fast one and revealed that Pablo is actually El Jefe, since he was the one who brought it up in the first place and he starts the show as a rather weak character and just an Ash fanboy. It draws a nice parallel to Ash himself and how he became a "hero". Pablo wants Ash to be El Jefe and is constantly trying to make him believe that he is, so it would be an interesting arc for the character if he himself turned out to be El Jefe instead. Maybe that's what his grandfather was trying to tell him when he told him the story of El Jefe. His grandfather was trying to tell him that he's the one.
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I actually like this idea, that would be a really good twist if that were the case.
 
I think the reason a lot of us have a problem with the unleashing-the-evil-while-high situation is for two reasons:

The first is that it makes Ash culpable in a completely selfish, intentional way in which he was never responsible in previous unleashings.  In the first, nobody's really to blame - they have no idea what's on the tape recorder - and if you have to blame someone, it's Scott's fault for taking it too far.  In the second, again, Ash and Linda have no idea what they're up against, and Linda's the one who suggests he plays it. In the third the evil is already basically unleashed; there are Deadites plaguing the land.  Ash just makes it worse through his own stubbornness (which it arguably is versus stupidity).   Here it's unavoidably his fault that everything's wrong; it's an act of pure selfishness and yeah, it spits on earlier, more serious canon where he knows what the Nec can do to destroy lives.

The second is that pot simply doesn't do that unless it's total zombie weed.  It makes you feel euphoric, hungry and sleepy, and it's not a hallucinogen unless you're consuming mass quantities or a certain kind.  It's not like alcohol.
 
MaidOfKandar said:
I think the reason a lot of us have a problem with the unleashing-the-evil-while-high situation is for two reasons:

The first is that it makes Ash culpable in a completely selfish, intentional way in which he was never responsible in previous unleashings.  In the first, nobody's really to blame - they have no idea what's on the tape recorder - and if you have to blame someone, it's Scott's fault for taking it too far.  In the second, again, Ash and Linda have no idea what they're up against, and Linda's the one who suggests he plays it. In the third the evil is already basically unleashed; there are Deadites plaguing the land.  Ash just makes it worse through his own stubbornness (which it arguably is versus stupidity).   Here it's unavoidably his fault that everything's wrong; it's an act of pure selfishness and yeah, it spits on earlier, more serious canon where he knows what the Nec can do to destroy lives.

The second is that pot simply doesn't do that unless it's total zombie weed.  It makes you feel euphoric, hungry and sleepy, and it's not a hallucinogen unless you're consuming mass quantities or a certain kind.  It's not like alcohol.
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I don't have a problem with Ash screwing up. Actually for him it's kinda impressive he didn't screw up for thirty years, but not like this. Not in this cheap way.

Maybe I would buy it more if his behaviour came from mixing alcohol with pot, but I don't think there were any indications of that in the scene.
 
That's what makes it make less sense; why now after thirty years, besides It's In the Script Reasons?

I've always felt it's less been about 'Ash screws up' then 'Ash is fate's chewtoy,' TBH. The only thing you could count as a screw up is the reading in the cemetery.
 
I'm gonna stop reading this part of the forum cause I'm getting so tired of all the negativity and the over analyzing of the pilot and probably the rest of the episodes...
Like I said before, just enjoy the ride (and imo a very, very good ride) and be happy we got this after all these years.
First it's years of none stop whining "We want a sequel". Now that you guys have it, it's whining over every single detail that is not "right" and "it's not in de the evil dead spirit".
It's like some Evil Dead fan just can't be pleased...
 
@Reznar - if you want to change the flow of the conversation, by all means feel free to make a post of your own about what you liked about the show.
 
The pilot's flaws were glaring to me on the first viewing, honestly. Maybe I let myself get caught up in the hype? That can only ever lead to disappointment. On second viewing the poor CGI and logic leaps didn't bother me so much and I was able to actually enjoy the show. I watched it for the third time with a group of friends and it was a total party. I'll be watching all the subsequent eps in a group then. Its pure joy.
 
Reznar said:
I'm gonna stop reading this part of the forum cause I'm getting so tired of all the negativity and the over analyzing of the pilot and probably the rest of the episodes...
Like I said before, just enjoy the ride (and imo a very, very good ride) and be happy we got this after all these years.
First it's years of none stop whining "We want a sequel". Now that you guys have it, it's whining over every single detail that is not "right" and "it's not in de the evil dead spirit".
It's like some Evil Dead fan just can't be pleased...
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Finally someone with some sense .. can I get a "hell yes" ? :cool:
 
Swofty said:
Reznar said:
I'm gonna stop reading this part of the forum cause I'm getting so tired of all the negativity and the over analyzing of the pilot and probably the rest of the episodes...
Like I said before, just enjoy the ride (and imo a very, very good ride) and be happy we got this after all these years.
First it's years of none stop whining "We want a sequel". Now that you guys have it, it's whining over every single detail that is not "right" and "it's not in de the evil dead spirit".
It's like some Evil Dead fan just can't be pleased...
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Finally someone with some sense .. can I get a "hell yes" ? :cool:
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Please be mindful of this post's rules and avoid denigrating the opinions of other users.  People who see flaws in the show and want to discuss the series in an analytical manner harbor just as much sense as you.
 
Hurley said:
MaidOfKandar said:
I think the reason a lot of us have a problem with the unleashing-the-evil-while-high situation is for two reasons:

The first is that it makes Ash culpable in a completely selfish, intentional way in which he was never responsible in previous unleashings.  In the first, nobody's really to blame - they have no idea what's on the tape recorder - and if you have to blame someone, it's Scott's fault for taking it too far.  In the second, again, Ash and Linda have no idea what they're up against, and Linda's the one who suggests he plays it. In the third the evil is already basically unleashed; there are Deadites plaguing the land.  Ash just makes it worse through his own stubbornness (which it arguably is versus stupidity).   Here it's unavoidably his fault that everything's wrong; it's an act of pure selfishness and yeah, it spits on earlier, more serious canon where he knows what the Nec can do to destroy lives.

The second is that pot simply doesn't do that unless it's total zombie weed.  It makes you feel euphoric, hungry and sleepy, and it's not a hallucinogen unless you're consuming mass quantities or a certain kind.  It's not like alcohol.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with Ash screwing up. Actually for him it's kinda impressive he didn't screw up for thirty years, but not like this. Not in this cheap way.

Maybe I would buy it more if his behaviour came from mixing alcohol with pot, but I don't think there were any indications of that in the scene.
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He did mix pot with alcohol.  Check the scene carefully. You can see a glass with alcohol when the bag fall on the table.  I just want to point out that the scene doesn't show anything about this particular night.  As he mentioned in the scene earlier, he like to be "blackout drunk".  Ash probably tell this to every woman he met in the bar.   Many people focus only on the actual scene.  I think it clear the scene suggest he was party hard all night.
 
Sutter Cane said:
Hurley said:
MaidOfKandar said:
I think the reason a lot of us have a problem with the unleashing-the-evil-while-high situation is for two reasons:

The first is that it makes Ash culpable in a completely selfish, intentional way in which he was never responsible in previous unleashings.  In the first, nobody's really to blame - they have no idea what's on the tape recorder - and if you have to blame someone, it's Scott's fault for taking it too far.  In the second, again, Ash and Linda have no idea what they're up against, and Linda's the one who suggests he plays it. In the third the evil is already basically unleashed; there are Deadites plaguing the land.  Ash just makes it worse through his own stubbornness (which it arguably is versus stupidity).   Here it's unavoidably his fault that everything's wrong; it's an act of pure selfishness and yeah, it spits on earlier, more serious canon where he knows what the Nec can do to destroy lives.

The second is that pot simply doesn't do that unless it's total zombie weed.  It makes you feel euphoric, hungry and sleepy, and it's not a hallucinogen unless you're consuming mass quantities or a certain kind.  It's not like alcohol.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with Ash screwing up. Actually for him it's kinda impressive he didn't screw up for thirty years, but not like this. Not in this cheap way.

Maybe I would buy it more if his behaviour came from mixing alcohol with pot, but I don't think there were any indications of that in the scene.
Click to expand...

He did mix pot with alcohol.  Check the scene carefully. You can see a glass with alcohol when the bag fall on the table.  I just want to point out that the scene doesn't show anything about this particular night.  As he mentioned in the scene earlier, he like to be "blackout drunk".  Ash probably tell this to every woman he met in the bar.   Many people focus only on the actual scene.  I think it clear the scene suggest he was party hard all night.
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See, I would happily accept that if there wasn't so much focus on the pot.  From him pulling the bag of roaches out of the book to them focusing on them lighting the joints up to it being described as a "Stoned mistake" in the episode description, it feels like they're leaning on the pot being the cause.
 
I've heard of weed affecting people very negatively but that usually involved them becoming very paranoid... which means they'd be even less likely to read from a book of ancient incantations that they knew for a bloody* highly traumatic fact was the real deal.

That being said, I understand it was a bit of a gag but more thought could have gone into it.

*I'm not swearing as I intend the word literally here.
 
Mardeadite said:
I've heard of weed affecting people very negatively  but that usually involved them becoming very paranoid... which means they'd be even less likely to read from a book of ancient incantations that they knew for a  bloody* highly traumatic fact was the real deal.

That being said, I understand it was a bit of a gag but more thought could have gone into it.

*I'm not swearing as I intend the word literally here.
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Exactly what I thought. Whoever has done booze and/or weed knows, that it might make you very emotional/confident/paranoid/silly/horny/hungry or what ever, but it does not make you so stupid that, you do something that could bring back your worst nightmares without any concerns.

But while still have my problems with such things, I have to admit, that after multiple views these flaws were not that striking for me aswell. And maybe we will get an explanation in a later episode that Ash tought, speaking the lines in random order, would not have the same effect as a proper incarnatation. Still dump, but who knows.
 
I don't have a problem with how they portrayed the effects of marijuana on that scene and I certainly can see Ash doing something like that. The problem I have with that bit is that it just seems like a lazy, random and unimaginative way to bring the evil back. Like they just went with the first idea they came up with. Like some of you already mentioned, even though we all agree that Ash should be responsible for bringing the evil back by being careless, the way they went with is just too convenient and intentionally careless. It's like they did it that way just so they could get that stuff out of the way fast and have the evil released even before the opening credits. I just wanted something a little more clever. That's my biggest gripe with this first episode. I know this is a mean way of saying it, but it feels like they just decided to shoot the first draft of the script and even the final product feels like a rough cut. Don't get me wrong, I think there's a lot to love here. It's just that I wanted a little more care with the story and attention to detail, you know?
 
This might just be me, but I figured they whole reason they went with the marijuana scenario is because it would be a hilarious, different way to go- and I thought it was quite a funny. It was a quick setup that allowed the episode to get moving, and I did laugh when Ash remembered and went "Fuuuuuuuu". I do agree that it was a bit cheap and quick, but it was just a 40 minute episode, it would have gotten to a pretty slow start if they went with something more elaborate and serious.
 
EvilStarsteam said:
This might just be me, but I figured they whole reason they went with the marijuana scenario is because it would be a hilarious, different way to go- and I thought it was quite a funny. It was a quick setup that allowed the episode to get moving, and I did laugh when Ash remembered and went "Fuuuuuuuu". I do agree that it was a bit cheap and quick, but it was just a 40 minute episode, it would have gotten to a pretty slow start if they went with something more elaborate and serious.
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I also thought it was funny and I liked the way it cut into the credits. I'm actually fine with it. It was alright and good enough for a gag, but just a little disappointing. It's just that I was expecting more than just "funny" from a major plot point, you know? On the other hand, it's exactly the fact that most people were expecting more of that particular plot point that made it so funny.
 
Here's what i think is the first script that they wrote for the pilot, and you can really tell that some major rewrites happened, as ash is named "Ash Holt" and pablo is "Paco".

http://www.zen134237.zen.co.uk/Ash_vs_Evil_Dead_1x01_-_Pilot.pdf
 
I'm intrigued - I wonder if Sam and Ivan deliberately code-named Ash "Ash Holt" in the script to prevent leaks, since that was his original name.
 
That was an interesting read joem1k. Thanks for posting.

A lot of similarities and differences.
Interesting that in this version the deadites just kept coming each year since Ash and Linda's time at the cabin, rather than being invoked again by reading from the book.

I guess that gets around the suspension of disbelief required to accept Ash would read from the book, but the idea that they just keep coming with nobody but Ash noticing.... I dunno....

I think I prefer the fact Paco is less of a hero worshiper in this version. Not so sure of the name...
 
Yeah, the script choices here actually make more sense.  And the idea of it being a yearly curse is interesting too!
 
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