Ash vs Evil Dead S03E03: Apparently Dead Discussion [SPOILERS]

Joem1k

Hero from the Sky
Staff member
Joined
Aug 1, 2015
One thing i'm noticing is how much darker it's starting to get as we go along and get further into this season. I'm wondering if that's not intentional, either way i'm enjoying the ride so far ! (Gonna be back later with a full review)

Looks like were going to go back in time a bit ala Christmas carol style with the real brock (I'm hopeful that wasn't actually him and it was a evil/doppleganger version of brock) and ash and him doing his own investigation plus i think were about to get into the dead world stuff from the looks of it. and it looks like brandy will be teaming up with kelly for the next episode as well! And look who is finally making a appearance, kaya !
 
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MaidOfKandar

I May Be Bad But I Feel...Good....
Staff member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
And back at it again with the commentary.

The Good:


The gore effects were pretty good. I liked the funeral parlor scene for that alone.

The actress playing Candy seemed to really relish being a Deadite.

Arielle Carver-O'Neill is a revelation, I said it last week and I'll say it again.

The tentative connection between Brandy and Cheryl is interesting and even a little bit tender. The bits where Brandy's looking at her stuff and reminescing about her mom are the best parts.
I hope this results in another return from Ellen.

The Crimson and Clover montage was cut together well,and well thought-out. Someone should submit that for an Emmy.

The twist of Ash being the Last Sane Man trying to figure out why Brock's alive while Brandy refuses to believe him. Very ED1 - Ash.

Bruce and Lucy covering 'Kids' complete with ragtime piano accompaniment. Covering it with a commercial counts as 'bad' :p.

The Meh:


Brandy and Ash's relationship continues to be interesting and provoking of emotion, but Ash's thoughtfulness in the last episode doesn't pave the way for him to show up at the parlor with a handful of flowers for Brandy he grabbed out of a sconce. Ash's thoughtfulness or lack thereof continues to jump around erratically.

I'm still on the fence about the show's use of pop music, but they really need to sit down and listen to the lyrics before using some of these songs. Though I also appreciate the irony of a sex ballad playing over shots of a corpse showering.

Bruce's acting was all over the map, with the majority of the Lee Majors scenes coming off as fake-sounding and cornball.

The Bad:


My continued winged appaloosa complaints about how even if your head's been reeatached to your body and you're already dead and thus Deadite-murdered, then you shouldn't automatically go Deadite.

The mood whiplash between scenes was extremely awkward this episode. The past two have handled it smoothly, but the beginning in particular jolted between humor and horror in a poor fashion.

"And of all the chicks you gave the best - " Why? It's not even funny.

The fucking timeline. What the hell? Maybe they should explain how Ruby's managed to bend time so she and Brandy have known one another for two years, since they aren't even bothering to give us suspense as to whether or not Ruby = the guidance counselor, because no way did Ash wait for two years after Brock's death to reopen the store. And if they returned from the past and 'nothing had changed', then why the hell did the cabin burn down? This is a continuity problem CONTAINED WITHIN THIS SEASON.

Speaking of, we completely skipped Brock's burial and funeral. The disconnect between this season and last remains uncomfortable.

Pablo randomly trying to pick up the naked Ancient One. Again. Why? If we're supposed to buy the crush on Kelly, why is he macking on a scary naked shamaness?

Dalton's death basically making him the Ed Getley of the season. Amazing potential for a character, totally wasted within two episodes
Though I do understand the character's coming back with Brock's spirit in his body.
. His presence did allow Dana to be able to emote more, which was something of a relief, but the relationship wasn't well-defined and didn't have nearly the emotional impact it might've had if they laid more groundwork and had him die in two more episodes.

The Verdict:
Thumbs down might have been too harsh of an initial verdict; my thumb's definitely canted downward this episode tho.

Notables:


I wanna know who made that mixtape for Cheryl. I'm guessing Chet. I love that Ash was a Lita Ford and Suzi Quatro guy, makes sense Cheryl would like Joan Jett.
 

DyD

Spinach Chin
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Location
Votuporanga, Brazil
Well... That was a steaming pile of wet garbage. Worst episode in this season so far and, to me, quite the contender for worst episode in the show ever. Ivan Raimi wrote this? Seriously?

I really don't feel like going into detail about it, so I make most of @MaidOfKandar's words above my own, even though my overall impression seems to be a lot more negative than hers.
 

Nick el Ass

Hero from the Sky
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Location
Indianapolis
I wish we had a little more time with Candy both while she was alive and as a Deadite, but they dispatched her so quickly in both forms that I can't help feeling we missed something special because Katrina Hobbs nailed it. The fight in the casket was amusing with Ash yelling yee haw as she grabbed his crotch, and I can only think of how much fun they were having shooting the scene while she was rubbing her boobs in his face. I mean actors have all the fun, but the cgi tongue thing had me laughing my ass off before I realized he had ripped her jaw off which was followed up with the line of "how was it for you?" while I was waiting for a ton of blood to pour out of her body. Instead Ash gets knocked out, and wakes up in the middle of the funeral with her head on his lap which I thought everyone there took surprisingly well given the situation. I'm guessing they were are all her aunts, uncles, cousins, etc... but in typical Ash fashion he just tells Brandy to go on with her speech because she is doing so well. After that Pablo sees the naked chick again, and the two people with her getting their throats slit (presumably by Ruby) which leads the gang back to the cabin to look for the kandarian dagger (Lindsay called it the camparion dagger on Twitter). I was almost certain when Pablo dug up the deer head he would mention Amanda, but they didn't mention anything related to any of the artifacts for lack of a better term like the projector which was apparently left in the rubble along with the book Amy found. Now we get to Brock's big return with Crimson and Clover playing from a mix tape Brandy found in Cheryl's room as he walks in, and does what anyone would do after a dirt nap which is take a shower. I thought those shots with his skin coming off were done incredibly well, and if the budget for makeup this season is smaller they have done a good job of working around that. Also Brock and Brandy's interaction with Ash may be one of my favorites moments from the series. Then Dalton happens, and I know the cabin has a weird way of fucking with people... but if that is the last of him that was quick even by Ash vs Evil Dead standards. Oh, and we did get the first showdown between Brock and Ash after Brock knocks poor Brandy out with a beer to the head so she missed all the wonderful lines like "I like my kids medium rare" and "I love the smell of old man in the morning" which perhaps is a good thing. We don't want Brandy to get shitty lines. However, we did get the flip onto the motor and a chainsaw to the gut followed by Brandy getting her Carrie like moment of being drenched in blood. I'm sure as she put her hands up to mover her hair out of her eyes that was an homage of sorts to Stephen King. Of course, I could be wrong about that.


/Nice cover during the end credits.
 
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Joem1k

Hero from the Sky
Staff member
Joined
Aug 1, 2015
@DyD Huh, i'm probably gonna guess your main gripes were again with the small details of the timeline stuff and the characters moments plus the death of that one particular character and probably a bunch of other things. Sorry to hear that.

Anyway's gonna keep my review short this week as this episode was more of a set-up episode then anything, not really much to cover. So let's begin.

Pro's
-The New Directors for this episode did a top notch job with how it was shot and how they played out some of the sequences, my favorite shots they did was the Montage sequence, The overhead shot of them digging around the cabin with the necronomicon's face starting to form from where they were digging and the one track shot of kelly running towards the truck. Those two have a bright future as directors

-Brandy and ash's relationship is still one of main highlights of this season and is bringing more layers and depth to ash's character then what we got in the first two seasons. Hope they can keep it up !

- While the coffin fight sequence was great, the aftermath was 10x funnier then it needed to be. Bruce nailed the delivery of it.

- Pablo's dorky nature is coming out full force this season, i couldn't stop laughing at him trying to awkwardly ask the brujo entity to put some clothes on and ask her out to some coffee.

- Pablo finally getting his time to shine and get his badass moment. (Nice callback to him saying "Maybe i'm a pickup truck kind of guy?")

- The pacing is still great, the half hour feels like a puzzle piece to a much larger story slowly starting unravel.

- Cheryl and her character in spirit getting a lot of attention and fleshing out this season through objects and brandy looking through her stuff and camera putting attention on her drawings. i wonder if this ain't foreshadowing something.
I'm really hoping cheryl and her death is brought up in ash's breakdown scene it would defiantly play heavily on the loss of family and the family themes they are leaning on this season. It was played on a bit during brock and ash's bar confrontation.

-Kelly's vulnerability coming out in this episode (and i have a feeling we won't see the last of if this seasons different tone and writing staff is anything to go by.)

-Pablo's atmospheric visions

-Evil Brock and Ash's fight scene *lee's still got it*

Middle's
- Brock coming back was great, BUT i'm a bit miffed on how he acted towards ash. I haven't seen this be brought up yet but does anyone know if this brock was a doppelganger or the real brock. I'm hopeful it was actually a evil brock that took over his corpse cause some of the stuff he was saying to ash and his demeanor towards him was way off to how they re-kindled their relationship from beforehand right before he died, not to mention the cackling laughter he made before he was chainsawed gave off some doppelganger vibes as well plus inhuman strength of tossing ash up against the wall.

If it turn's out next episode that this was the actual brock saying these things to ash and he has the ablity to throw ash that far into the air, this is probably going to turn in a big fat con for this episode for me.
Some the stuff bruce mentioned in a previous interview seems like were going to get more to their relationship then bickering in this upcoming episode, hopefully his right about it because he apparently told the writers to flesh them out more and not just have them bicker like they did in s2.


- While i am miffed dalton was dispatched early into this season, i'm not upset about it cause i had a feeling he wasn't going to be that much of a main stay character to begin with beyond his ties with the clan his in. I feel like his still gonna be around as a recurring role and his clan of knights in the future episodes to play their roles out accordingly.

SIDE NOTE : i did love how the scene played out between him and kelly very good acting on both farris and dana's behalf

-Some of the lines were a bit cornballing it a bit but the actor's delivering the lines added a nice charm onto it.

Con's
*None*

Observations

@MaidOfKandar

- I think you missed a small detail from a previous conversation in episode 2 about pablo's current status with kelly, pablo seems to have given up a little on the venture/crush on kelly after she left and seems to be slightly keeping her at arms length for right now.

This is hinted at during their conversation at his food stand when they are talking about dreams coming true and he says "yeah, some of them" so i'm willing to bet this is going to be a slow burn for the payoff which i'm gonna guess is gonna be coming up here soon. Can't wait !

-I loved all the little bits of objects they dug up from the cabin, there was some nice nods hidden in the background to some objects

- Honestly, i could give less of a damn about the timeline problems at this point, it just seems like a wasted battle to even go over or explain how the writers fucked up this week for the 100th time in a row, it's like banging a stick over someones head at this point. but i have my own little personal theory about the aftermath timeline after s2.

NON-Canon Theory
2 years is really not that long of a stretch for this franchise, i can easily see during that time ash moving back and scrambling after his move to get everything in order for his dads store and get a loan probably for all the commercials and pablo setting up his own shop and working for no pay at ash's store and kelly leaving the group after probably getting sick of ash's crap. Linda probably left during that time for obvious reasons (dead family and ptsd of the memories)

In ruby's case, i'm gonna guess after the parade she began planning out her grand scheme over the course of those 2 years as she looked for the book and decided to become the schools counselor and killed the original ms.previtt who probably just moved into the town and took it upon herself to kill her and use her house for the time being OR she has a veil over the town about her identity ala baal powers.

- Cheryl's drawing of a younger brock williams and a drawing of herself. Plus i also should mention the drawing of the eyeball with the skull in the iris made another appearance this week, foreshadowing maybe ?

@MaidOfKandar
- I feel like the reason the deadites are dispatched so easily on this show is because of the half hour limit. in-show wise, i'm gonna say the evil force possessing the bodies is constantly on the move to make it's next strike on ash and his gang.

Summary
This episode does have some minor faults for sure, but i think it is by no means this shows worst episode ever. There is still effort being put forth with the characters and the current story unraveling and it act's as the set-up episode for probably the much bigger parts of this story to unfold in the coming weeks. Which i have pretty good feeling the gas pedal is about to get pushed down to the floor with episode 4 and 5.

Let's see what happens next ! :D
 
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Guy

Loud Mouth Braggart
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
How are people still complaining about how the Deadites are re-animated/dispatched? This series has NEVER made consistent sense with that.

  1. Cheryl got possessed after a tree attacked her, melted into a weird massive hand demon monster when the book was burned, returned because the evil force hit a photograph and died again after her head was cut off.
  2. Linda was possessed from being stabbed by a pencil? Returned, had her head cut off, returned again and had her body and head chainsawed, then returned AGAIN and had her skull smashed by a crowbar.
  3. Scotty went for a walk, came back dying, died, returned, had his eyes gouged out and burning a book turned him into porridge.
  4. Ash went deadite and came back because of the sunlight, then deadite again and came back because of a necklace.
  5. Henrietta was possessed, seemingly chained up, fed students, died, buried, returned, lost and eye, turned into a long necked skull making monkey noises, flew, got cut into bits, mocked Ash as a head, was shotgunned, then Ash goes back in time and goes through it all again including cutting off the neck and not burying her.
  6. Ed got knocked out, came back as a deadite, got dismembered.
    Giant.Apple.Head
  7. Some demon in the past could fly and had its head shotgunned into pieces
  8. The deadite woman in the pit had her head cut off
  9. The pit witch was shotgunned back down into the pit after having a hand sliced off
  10. The deadite with a cauldron was just shot a bunch of times and died
  11. Evil Ash grew, separated, got shotgunned in the face, dismembered and then just appeared back in shape after the words were said wrong, was burned, had it's hand cut off and was catapulted with explosives
  12. Numerous skeletons were smashed
  13. Sheila was possessed and then after Evil Ash died...just not possessed.
  14. The woman at S-Mart was just rifled a few times

This is before we're on the show, a show where cut off heads mean death in one episode, and the next episode dismembered heads are yelling at Kelly outside the cabin or taunting ash in Jacksonville.

There's no consistency to possession, death, re-possession or even a cure for possession at all in the franchise.
 
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Joem1k

Hero from the Sky
Staff member
Joined
Aug 1, 2015
@Guy
Yes and yes, it's stuff like this that i just can not be bothered to even get upset over. It's just not worth it.

My simple way of looking at the inconsistency's is this way.

the evil force basically moves on to something else after that body or host or whatever it's currently possessed wasn't feasible to use anymore as a threat, the main evil force acts like a demonic evil child who moves on when it's bored with that certain toy and get's another one to play with and when it does creates it's chess piece or doll known as what we know it as a deadite.
 
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Muzzlehatch

Loud Mouth Braggart
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
OK episode in my opinion. Nothing really remarkable about it, but I would not call it one of the worst episodes either. There were even a few things I really liked: the creepy shower scene, the references to Cheryl, young Brock, the cabin props, Ash and the gang being active in seperate story lines. As stated last week, I quite like the improved directing and narrative flow of this season.
 

MaidOfKandar

I May Be Bad But I Feel...Good....
Staff member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Coming back with comments later, but a quick comment RE the canon lore argument:

Ah, but I'm not complaining about the method of possession specifically or even the fact that Deadites have died in different ways. I'm complaining about the show-specific decision that beheading = death or resurrection of a Deadite. Not even specifically head destruction, but beheading.

Franchise-wide, they're consistent that dismemberment= most effective way to stop them. Shelley proves the rule in the first movie, Cheryl and Scotty melt, and Linda is beheaded but keeps on going. In the second movie, both halves of Linda's body are sawed in half, Ed's chopped into bits, and Henrietta is beheaded AND her head is destroyed. The only big rule exceptions are Sheila, who's saved from possession when Evil Ash explodes and the woman who attacks Ash at the S-Mart.

Like I said, I know it's a winged appaloosa complaint that's specific and nerdy but hey - what is the site for, if not to be nerdy? :D
 

DyD

Spinach Chin
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Location
Votuporanga, Brazil
Huh, i'm probably gonna guess your main gripes were again with the small details of the timeline stuff and the characters moments plus the death of that one particular character and probably a bunch of other things. Sorry to hear that.

I've honestly long stopped caring about the messy timeline and I wanna say I really don't mind the bit about decapitated Candy immediately going deadite once her head is re-attached at all. My problems were the poorly written dialogue, the really bad jokes, the cliche character drama and interactions, the waste of good characters and actors, the aimless and sometimes nonsensical overall feel of the writing, the tone, the editing, the pacing and just the pointlessness of it all. To me, this episode was just plain bad. It wasn't about "details". To me, this show has been displaying an annoying tendency of following strong episodes that make a lot of improvements and introduce interesting aspects with really bad ones that take a lot of steps back and undermine a lot of those improvements and new aspects. This was just continuing that trend, really. I still have hopes that they'll find their footing once again in the following weeks. This was a dud, but it was just the 3rd episode in a season that's been the strongest so far.

Anyway, I won't be going in depth about episodes when I have nothing nice to say. I really don't want my rants and negative opinion to take away from the enjoyment of people discussing things in here who actually like what they're seeing on the show and I honestly don't have the energy to get in those back and forth arguments anymore. So carry on, nevermind me.
 
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Muzzlehatch

Loud Mouth Braggart
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Watched it for a second time. I don’t take my initial opinion back, but one thing that really annoys me ...

Deadites caused chaos in town.
People of all ages were killed, even police officers.
Ash defeatet evil and became the town‘s hero.
Ash reopened his deceased father‘s store.
Brandy saw her mom and her best friend beeing killed by evil.
Ash rescued her.

... and still she is not able to believe him, when he takes care of her posessed mother or her reanimated grandfather?

I can ignore a big chunk of story telling nonsense. But that‘s some lazy writing, when it comes to the dramatic dynamics between Ash and Brandy.

She can hate him for being an alcoholic, sex addicted, social incompetent moron ... but please not for fighting demons, when their existence is common knowledge in town.
 

DyD

Spinach Chin
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Location
Votuporanga, Brazil
Watched it for a second time. I don’t take my initial opinion back, but one thing that really annoys me ...

Deadites caused chaos in town.
People of all ages were killed, even police officers.
Ash defeatet evil and became the town‘s hero.
Ash reopened his deceased father‘s store.
Brandy saw her mom and her best friend beeing killed by evil.
Ash rescued her.

... and still she is not able to believe him, when he takes care of her posessed mother or her reanimated grandfather?

I can ignore a big chunk of story telling nonsense. But that‘s some lazy writing, when it comes to the dramatic dynamics between Ash and Brandy.

She can hate him for being an alcoholic, sex addicted, social incompetent moron ... but please not for fighting demons, when their existence is common knowledge in town.

Agreed. This is related to what I said about this episode falling back into cliche drama/character interactions and somewhat nonsensical, lazy writing.
 
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Sutter Cane

Spinach Chin
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Watched it for a second time. I don’t take my initial opinion back, but one thing that really annoys me ...

Deadites caused chaos in town.
People of all ages were killed, even police officers.
Ash defeatet evil and became the town‘s hero.
Ash reopened his deceased father‘s store.
Brandy saw her mom and her best friend beeing killed by evil.
Ash rescued her.

... and still she is not able to believe him, when he takes care of her posessed mother or her reanimated grandfather?

I can ignore a big chunk of story telling nonsense. But that‘s some lazy writing, when it comes to the dramatic dynamics between Ash and Brandy.

She can hate him for being an alcoholic, sex addicted, social incompetent moron ... but please not for fighting demons, when their existence is common knowledge in town.

There's a lot of non-senses and I couldn't agree more with you. You can even go back to S2, when Ash admit in front of the police chief and all peoples in Chet's bar that he killed all his friends in the cabin. He should have been arrested and put in a jail right away.

I don't want to rubs more salt in the wound, but unfortunately, you really need to turns your brain to off, open your skull, then throw your brain out the window to enjoy the story. Watch first think never. ;) I personally hate doing this.
 
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Joem1k

Hero from the Sky
Staff member
Joined
Aug 1, 2015
@Muzzlehatch @Sutter Cane

I'm going to put this down as brandy being ignorant/in denial of her situation and is being how ash was in ED1 and is just wanting everything to go back to normal. She's playing the grounded straight man role as did ash in the first film.

To me she's slowly being built up, and hopefully we'll see her crack out of her shell here soon.

It looks like brandy and kelly we'll be teaming up for this next episode and trying to survive against deadite pablo. I'm willing to bet kelly will probably turn her around and make her see things differently. Hopefully
 

Muzzlehatch

Loud Mouth Braggart
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
You can even go back to S2, when Ash admit in front of the police chief and all peoples in Chet's bar that he killed all his friends in the cabin. He should have been arrested and put in a jail right away.

Yeah, the way they handled the public's reaction to evil so far is reeeally strange.

In S1 the media reports about mysterious sink holes and there is even a whole narrative arc about the authorities following Ash's bloody trail (which was necessary in my opinion to give the story a realistic grounding).

But in S2 he returns to the very same town he left 30 years ago because everyone there blames him for the murder of his sister and friends (and like you said, he even admits it) and the only initial reaction from town folk and police is verbal bullying.

???

The happy parade ending fucked that up even more ...
 

Sutter Cane

Spinach Chin
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
@Muzzlehatch @Sutter Cane

I'm going to put this down as brandy being ignorant/in denial of her situation and is being how ash was in ED1 and is just wanting everything to go back to normal. She's playing the grounded straight man role as did ash in the first film.

To me she's slowly being built up, and hopefully we'll see her crack out of her shell here soon.

It looks like brandy and kelly we'll be teaming up for this next episode and trying to survive against deadite pablo. I'm willing to bet kelly will probably turn her around and make her see things differently. Hopefully


Maybe, and I understand your point.. If so, it's done in a clumsy way compare to ED1. I don't feel she's in denial and no words from her about this. In ED Ash was clear that he did not believe what he saw at first. A big problem with the series is that we need to guess a lot of things.
 

Henrietta Knowby

S-Mart Clerk
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
i agree that whatever rules are in effect in this universe (once you kill a deadite it STAYS dead) are being subjectively tweaked (i.e. blatantly BROKEN) to serve whatever poorly thought out twaddle the writers feel like slapping together this week. I've seen so much poor writing, and so many enormous plot holes and unanswered questions, that at this point it's been fun to see bruce back in the saddle but it'll be a relief when it ends. it's really gotten to be such an inferior product that I cant find myself hoping for yet another "meh" season of silliness. there's no plot development, it's all just derivative and repetitive. sad to see.
 
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