Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [MARK YOUR SPOILERS!]

RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

That's pretty cool.

Though the room looks like something out of a video game gear room.
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Here's an interesting interview with Bruce I came across, gotta say it doesn't do much to quell my concerns about this season. There's a particularly interesting bit that I'm going to quote here, where Bruce basically confirms something else I've felt about this series and don't care much for.


                     "[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ash is the Vietnam veteran now. He’s the guy at the end of the bar going “That’s not going to work”. “How do you know?” “I know”. It’s a little bit like that. Well, and here’s the truth of it; I remember John Wayne only as an old guy. What he would do is when he knew he was an old guy, he started putting like Glen Campbell in it and he always had a singer. He’d put a young singer in his movies cause that’s for the young people. They’ll like Glen Campbell, he’s a good singer. So this is the case. Ash is surrounding himself by young, attractive people, and I’ve got a very good stuntman — Raicho Vasilev..." Bruce Campbell on Ash's place in the story[/font][font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Read more: http://www.shockya.com/news/2016/07/28/bruce-campbell-ash-vs-evil-dead-season-2/#ixzz4H3mrHKUG[/font]



[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My dad has a thing about John Wayne movies and I believe I've seen them all at some point during my childhood, and Bruce is correct, once John Wayne hit a certain age, he always had a pair of young 'love birds' (likable actor and actress as sidekicks to provide drama or something similar of that nature). I remember thinking about the similarities between the formula for those old movies, and the formula for AshvED as I was watching season 1 unfold. [/font]

[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]     I've been reading about this new Baal character, a human appearing demon who is a "master of torture" and the most formidable foe Ash has faced yet. I hate to be redundant, but yet again I've heard that one somewhere before (cough-Supernatural-cough). The lack of originality as far as the writing goes really grates on me. You've got a franchise where virtually any character can be possessed, including inanimate objects, an ancient book that remains mysterious in that nobody has really outlined everything that it does, leaving that open to creative interpretation, and the best you can come up with is a 2nd army of Darkness? The Evil Dead universe is like the ultimate playground, and Sam gave these guys a lot of freedom here, and all they seem to do is recycle material from other franchises. I don't get it.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]    There are a few things I'm looking forward to though, I don't want to be the eternal downer. I am super-excited about Ellen Sandweiss returning, even in a small role (they may not handle it the way I'd like, but it'll be great to see her). I'm really hoping for some improved one-liners for Ash and the gang too. Speaking of attractive sidekicks, I actually rather like Kelly's character and look forward to seeing what they decide to do there. I hope if they have to off her that she's given a bad-ass way to go out. I'm also looking forward to a more jaded version of Pablo, his earnestness was endearing at first, but has begun to set my teeth on edge. Let the man get angry, he's been through some shit. [/font]
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Life_Gets_Teejus said:
Here's an interesting interview with Bruce I came across, gotta say it doesn't do much to quell my concerns about this season. There's a particularly interesting bit that I'm going to quote here, where Bruce basically confirms something else I've felt about this series and don't care much for.


                     "[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ash is the Vietnam veteran now. He’s the guy at the end of the bar going “That’s not going to work”. “How do you know?” “I know”. It’s a little bit like that. Well, and here’s the truth of it; I remember John Wayne only as an old guy. What he would do is when he knew he was an old guy, he started putting like Glen Campbell in it and he always had a singer. He’d put a young singer in his movies cause that’s for the young people. They’ll like Glen Campbell, he’s a good singer. So this is the case. Ash is surrounding himself by young, attractive people, and I’ve got a very good stuntman — Raicho Vasilev..." Bruce Campbell on Ash's place in the story[/font][font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Read more: http://www.shockya.com/news/2016/07/28/bruce-campbell-ash-vs-evil-dead-season-2/#ixzz4H3mrHKUG[/font]



[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My dad has a thing about John Wayne movies and I believe I've seen them all at some point during my childhood, and Bruce is correct, once John Wayne hit a certain age, he always had a pair of young 'love birds' (likable actor and actress as sidekicks to provide drama or something similar of that nature). I remember thinking about the similarities between the formula for those old movies, and the formula for AshvED as I was watching season 1 unfold. [/font]

[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]     I've been reading about this new Baal character, a human appearing demon who is a "master of torture" and the most formidable foe Ash has faced yet. I hate to be redundant, but yet again I've heard that one somewhere before (cough-Supernatural-cough). The lack of originality as far as the writing goes really grates on me. You've got a franchise where virtually any character can be possessed, including inanimate objects, an ancient book that remains mysterious in that nobody has really outlined everything that it does, leaving that open to creative interpretation, and the best you can come up with is a 2nd army of Darkness? The Evil Dead universe is like the ultimate playground, and Sam gave these guys a lot of freedom here, and all they seem to do is recycle material from other franchises. I don't get it.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]    There are a few things I'm looking forward to though, I don't want to be the eternal downer. I am super-excited about Ellen Sandweiss returning, even in a small role (they may not handle it the way I'd like, but it'll be great to see her). I'm really hoping for some improved one-liners for Ash and the gang too. Speaking of attractive sidekicks, I actually rather like Kelly's character and look forward to seeing what they decide to do there. I hope if they have to off her that she's given a bad-ass way to go out. I'm also looking forward to a more jaded version of Pablo, his earnestness was endearing at first, but has begun to set my teeth on edge. Let the man get angry, he's been through some shit. [/font]

Personally it may sound like a 2nd army of darkness but really it all comes down to how the character is executed and how it's played out but those are just my two cents, plus the demon baal has been around before even supernatural or evil dead was a thing it's more them borrowing from myths, legends and biblical tales more then anything else, supernatural has also been know for copying and borrowing stuff as well so i have no idea where this argument/critique stems from.

To me anyways it look likes there getting a lot more creative with the evil force and demons for this season then it just being deadites which i'm really glad that this is the case (The possessed car,the prison demon, ruby's children , live organs coming to life and trying kill ash and probably much more)

from what i heard from first reviews pablo character is abit darker  in the first episode so you might be getting your answer for that, overall from what i've been hearing for pablo's character i have a feeling his going to be getting a good chunk of character development for this season like kelly did in the 1st. 

No worries about being a debbie downer man, your  just  giving out your thoughts and concerns like everyone else here and want the show to improve, Season 1 really left a sour impression on everyone but it looks like to me anyways season 2 could blow season 1 out of the water so here's hoping it does.  :D
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Joem1k said:
Life_Gets_Teejus said:
Here's an interesting interview with Bruce I came across, gotta say it doesn't do much to quell my concerns about this season. There's a particularly interesting bit that I'm going to quote here, where Bruce basically confirms something else I've felt about this series and don't care much for.


                     "[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ash is the Vietnam veteran now. He’s the guy at the end of the bar going “That’s not going to work”. “How do you know?” “I know”. It’s a little bit like that. Well, and here’s the truth of it; I remember John Wayne only as an old guy. What he would do is when he knew he was an old guy, he started putting like Glen Campbell in it and he always had a singer. He’d put a young singer in his movies cause that’s for the young people. They’ll like Glen Campbell, he’s a good singer. So this is the case. Ash is surrounding himself by young, attractive people, and I’ve got a very good stuntman — Raicho Vasilev..." Bruce Campbell on Ash's place in the story[/font][font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Read more: http://www.shockya.com/news/2016/07/28/bruce-campbell-ash-vs-evil-dead-season-2/#ixzz4H3mrHKUG[/font]



[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My dad has a thing about John Wayne movies and I believe I've seen them all at some point during my childhood, and Bruce is correct, once John Wayne hit a certain age, he always had a pair of young 'love birds' (likable actor and actress as sidekicks to provide drama or something similar of that nature). I remember thinking about the similarities between the formula for those old movies, and the formula for AshvED as I was watching season 1 unfold. [/font]

[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]     I've been reading about this new Baal character, a human appearing demon who is a "master of torture" and the most formidable foe Ash has faced yet. I hate to be redundant, but yet again I've heard that one somewhere before (cough-Supernatural-cough). The lack of originality as far as the writing goes really grates on me. You've got a franchise where virtually any character can be possessed, including inanimate objects, an ancient book that remains mysterious in that nobody has really outlined everything that it does, leaving that open to creative interpretation, and the best you can come up with is a 2nd army of Darkness? The Evil Dead universe is like the ultimate playground, and Sam gave these guys a lot of freedom here, and all they seem to do is recycle material from other franchises. I don't get it.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]    There are a few things I'm looking forward to though, I don't want to be the eternal downer. I am super-excited about Ellen Sandweiss returning, even in a small role (they may not handle it the way I'd like, but it'll be great to see her). I'm really hoping for some improved one-liners for Ash and the gang too. Speaking of attractive sidekicks, I actually rather like Kelly's character and look forward to seeing what they decide to do there. I hope if they have to off her that she's given a bad-ass way to go out. I'm also looking forward to a more jaded version of Pablo, his earnestness was endearing at first, but has begun to set my teeth on edge. Let the man get angry, he's been through some shit. [/font]

Personally it may sound like a 2nd army of darkness but really it all comes down to how the character is executed and how it's played out but those are just my two cents, plus the demon baal has been around before even supernatural or evil dead was a thing it's more them borrowing from myths, legends and biblical tales more then anything else, supernatural has also been know for copying and borrowing stuff as well so i have no idea where this argument/critique stems from.

To me anyways it look likes there getting a lot more creative with the evil force and demons for this season then it just being deadites which i'm really glad that this is the case (The possessed car,the prison demon, ruby's children , live organs coming to life and trying kill ash and probably much more)

from what i heard from first reviews pablo character is abit darker  in the first episode so you might be getting your answer for that, overall from what i've been hearing for pablo's character i have a feeling his going to be getting a good chunk of character development for this season like kelly did in the 1st. 

No worries about being a debbie downer man, your  just  giving out your thoughts and concerns like everyone else here and want the show to improve, Season 1 really left a sour impression on everyone but it looks like to me anyways season 2 could blow season 1 out of the water so here's hoping it does.  :D
I'll admit the Supernatural thing for me has a lot to do with the character of Ruby and the scenes from season 1 of the car driving off with a classic rock soundtrack...at least personally it really calls the show to mind. To be fair, Supernatural has referenced the Evil Dead series many times over the years, so the AvED writers may mean it as a friendly 'right back at ya' type of deal, I can't say with any authority lol. 

         You've got some good points though, if they can incorporate various elements of mythology/pop culture what-have-you and put a unique twist on it that feels like Evil Dead then that has the potential to be pretty cool. And I'm right there with you on hoping season 2 is way better, I am extremely skeptical but I'm trying to reserve judgement completely.
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Joem1k said:
Here's a full look at ash's full bedroom, and i have to say i am really impressed by the overall set and props and speaks sounds about what his was like before he went to the cabin, AvED set effects and props department does it again. Holy shit 

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ash’s bedroom is a time capsule. It’s a little piece of the 70’s and 80’s nostalgia or a very focused trip down Michigan memory lane. In many ways it’s tones are similar to his trailer, it felt right that they would have a familiar feel. Historic Michigan rock posters featuring artists Ash would listen to: Alice Cooper and Iggy pop. Michigan sports memorabilia and photos of Bruce [Campbell] as a child. We figured that before the incident at the cabin, his character was a pretty normal, everyday kind of guy and we wanted to put some quite typical things in there like Faygo posters, Michigan State memorabilia and a cello which is slightly out of character now, but once upon a time who knows.[/font]


I never took ash as the kinda guy to play the cello, that is quite interesting to say the least i could look at these images for days and still find a lot of new stuff in here.

Source : http://www.joblo.com/horror-movies/news/exclusive-look-at-ashs-childhood-bedroom-in-ash-vs-evil-dead-season-2-330 (Images are much bigger in the source)

A couple of instruments including a guitar and cello, Black Sabbath related stuff, a few American flags (f-yeah,) a reel to reel and 8 tracks... and I like how his desk appears to be an old refurbished workbench. Not to mention the bong and some board games so it looks like Ash was indeed your average kid growing up before everything went so wrong.
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Joem1k said:
@Maid 
I don't know if that info will be coming out ever but i can defiantly tell when a budget's been boosted and season 2 looks a lot more bigger in comparison to how season 1 looked and season 1 is looking very bare bones with each new image or peice of info that comes out. 

Like i said before everyone is fair game this season it's gonna suck if kelly is the one whose going to be dieing but hopefully that's not the case and dana is just hyping it up abit for the interview. 

It's made me very happy  to hear that pablo and kelly are going to be getting a lot more closer this season, considering what's happen to them both it doesn't surprise me that it wasn't going to happen.

Technically speaking, arthur and sheila probably died decades or years after ash went back to his own time, sooo yes and no ?  

I wonder what this action is going to be that they cannot undo, and it not being ash's fault this time is quite refreshing and nice to hear.

It's interesting to me how she keeps pounding home the point that no one in the franchise can ever have a happy romance because they die.  It's leading me to believe they get together mid-season and one of them dies and the other indebts their soul to get them out of hell.  

Eh, I don't know if I'd count dying after a happy life a win for the Nec. The closest we have to post-canon info on them comes from the Telltale Games and those are firmly anti-canon due to Edict of Sam and Bruce (they didn't even go to them to get permission to do the movie) 

Also I have no idea how I mushed Arthur into that conversation.  I was half-asleep last night.

Nick el Ass said:
We are all having a Baal on here with various topics, but what is up with bad guys... or potential bad gals having long finger nails?!?

08_Baal.jpg

  
16-31-2127-812x522.jpg

I was trying to figure out who Baal's general look reminds me of and then it hit me; Glenn Danzig.  There's also some latter-day Ozzy thrown in there.

DocLathropBrown said:
Hurley said:
There are definitely good, if not great things in Ash vs Evil Dead, but the last 7 months actually helped me to better understand what main problems I have whit this show. For me, the Evil Dead films (mostly the first two) are so appealing, because they can be funny and scary at the same time. Because of how bizarre they can be with their humor, and how they can work with fantasy lore in their slasher horror genre (mostly ED II and Army). And most of all, I love it because it's essentially a tragedy. It's a story about a guy that survives trough hell only to be then thrown into something much worse. Not necessarily by his own doing, but mostly by the overall rules this twisted world works by (I admit Army of Darkness challenges this formula a bit, but it still is within its limits).

YES. So. Much. THIS.

It's that aspect that I just don't get about Sam (and to a lesser extent, Bruce). How can Sam act like Ash was always supposed to be the character he is today? There ain't a single hint of the current Ash in the first two films. Barely in the third, either. I get why Bruce rolls with it: he wants money, so he'll play Ash however Sam dictates.

It's the aspect that separates The Evil Dead from other horror franchises for me; usually, horror films are full of victims, and anybody who opposes the dark forces is lucky to maybe survive to the next installment... where they die in the beginning. Ash Williams is the only horror character tough/heroic enough to last through an entire trilogy and come out on top. Not without his losses, sure (friends, lovers, limbs, his sanity), but he just won't say die. When New Line Cinema producer Jeff Katz said that the only condition Raimi had in letting them use Ash for the aborted crossover with Jason and Freddy was that Ash win? I completely agree--that's how it is. Not because he the best character of the three or anything, but simply because Ash is practically the only horror hero. He deserves to overcome.

So you can imagine how the show undercuts my love of the character. Had this series not had Ash as its main protagonist (say he had died at the end of TED and II followed a new character), then I wouldn't be the fan that I am.

I want season 2 to course-correct. At least a reasonable amount. But, to be honest: if it doesn't, I won't weep upon its cancellation. Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

Y'all are on a roll!   I love all of this.

Ashenwraith said:
I think the only logical explanation for AvED is that Sam Raimi secretly wrote and helped with My Name is Bruce.

After watching the trailer again I noticed they have more varied lighting and wide angle scene-setting shots--that's always a plus.


Actually if we're going to blame anyone, we're going to have to blame Bruce, he's the sole similarity between both films; he gave MNIB a "dialogue pass" (IE rewrote anything that didn't fit "his" perception of his public persona) and directed it.  On AvED he was the "canary in a coal mine" who was supposed to speak up when anything felt off.  


@Joe RE the room; I liked a lot of the different things , but I had a couple of problems with it.

The weights.   They keep trying to pretend Ash was ED2 Ash straight out of the and that he wasn't a romantic, ill-equipped nerd once upon a time!   C'mon, we all saw TED.

I presume the cello is a nod to Ted's being able to play. Maybe Ash was a musical prodigy?

Also Ash just fled his room post-AOD and he didn't take a single thing with him?  It looks like maybe he took a couple of albums and a couple of books, bought the trailer and skedaddled.
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

@Maid

I have a theory about those weight's, if you look closely at the wall there are two that have been thrown into the wall probably out sheer frustration and anger and there's hardly any weights on the bar itself, i have a feeling ash was still a nerd/geek judging by the cello and various pop culture items and posters scattered around his room, i think once he got to high school i have a feeling that's where he started to try and change his image and persona around and began copying some of his dad's attitude and behaviors to try and fit in which i think for the most part worked but as you can tell the cabin vist and everything after that ash just grew accustomed to living that lifestyle to cope with the pain and responsibility of looking after that book. I think that's probably why ash considers pablo such a good friend to him because he see's his much younger nerdier side in pablo, that's just how i see it with the weights. 


Yeah i  also have a  feeling Post-AOD ash decided to make a quick stop back in his hometown to grab a few trinkets and personal things before hitting the road and not looking back to live on the road while guarding the book and keeping it hidden away in his trailer, he really did a good job of not awakening the evil force for those 30 years so the lessons he learned from AOD must have been intact for a good while during his 30-40's before his mid life crisis during his 50's hit and well he got sloppy and reckless with his responsibility's and well here we are now.
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

MaidOfKandar said:
Also Ash just fled his room post-AOD and he didn't take a single thing with him?  It looks like maybe he took a couple of albums and a couple of books, bought the trailer and skedaddled.

It certainly looks that way. I really think Ash returned home from his weekend at the Cabin/1300 A.D., maybe tried to explain what had happened, but shit hit the fan really quickly and he split town--never looking back.

That would be really tragic in any other show. With this one? They'll probably play it for laughs, which shortchanges the show overall. Ash might have been able to move-on to some degree and start rebuilding his life. Instead, the people who might have been able to fill the void left by his sister, friends and girlfriend all turned on him--worse, blamed him for the tragedy. A tragedy that he also endured. If they were smart, they'd play up a "I wish I had died instead" element to Ash. But they ain't that smart.

I think Bruce and the company really underestimate what general audiences respond to. He makes comparisons to The Walking Dead, but AvsED isn't even in the same league. Why is that? Because people connect with the characters on TWD. I don't even watch TWD and I know that. But can new viewers connect with Ash, the main character of Ash Vs. The Evil Dead? I'd bet not.

Ash, as characterized in the show, only appeals to existing ED fans, I think. New viewers have to grow attached to characters because they like them. What is there to like about Ash in the series? Nothing. Had Ash actually been this way from the beginning, I wouldn't have given a rat's ass about the trilogy.

If the point of Ash in the show is that he's supposed to be cool--he isn't. Badass? How badass is the guy when he lets the villain win so he can run away? Because he's a ladies man? He's deliberately portrayed as cheap, tacky and crass.

The ED franchise is too underground. They would do better to fix Ash as a character so that new audiences could find him compelling and latch onto him.

[/rant over]
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

@Joe - It's interesting to me that they're firmly saying "yes, the movie happened in/around 1981" after being vague last season. There's a general feeling. That would actually be interesting, since he'd be trying to emulate someone like Scott.

(Also the number of beer bottles in there was kinda WTF-worthy. If his parents were hard-asses how the hell did he get away with that much boozing in...what, three years if he's 21? Would his parents let him drink underage?).

Looping around to answer everyone.
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Bruce has been a TV actor for like the last 35+ years and probably did his best acting in Evil Dead 2 (no matter what he says about liking Brisco--I saw every episode and it was pure TV cheese, no acting required for 90%, just good looks and a grin).

I can't blame Bruce for anything.

However Sam Raimi did the best Spiderman and is still a big director. I expect much more QC from him, especially since in Bruce's book he claimed 'Bruce was just his puppet' and does whatever he says (I'm sure some of it was a joke, but that's how most directors do think and that's why they're directors).

It wouldn't be the first time a director ghost wrote/directed a movie--or at least told Bruce 'ED 4 script stars off with you in a trailer being a drunk jerk'.
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

MaidOfKandar said:
(Also the number of beer bottles in there was kinda WTF-worthy.  If his parents were hard-asses how the hell did he get away with that much boozing in...what, three years if he's 21? Would his parents let him drink underage?).

Looping around to answer everyone.

Also the straight-up maybe-porn on his wall.

Based on the person Brock seems to be, maybe he wouldn't care. Maybe he'd even buy Ash the beer, philosophizing that drinking is what real men do. I'd be willing to bet that Mrs. Williams died when Ash/Cheryl were young.

I'm a novelist and I'm actually tinkering with writing novelizations of the film trilogy (in between my original projects), I've done some preliminary work on the first film's book, giving thought to how to convey Ash's evolution, beyond the real-world issue of throwing continuity to-the-wind as Sam/Bruce did.

How I'd rationalize the character over the course of the trilogy/show is this:

*Mrs. Williams died when Ash and Cheryl were young. She was the sensitive parent.
*Ash was expected to be a girl maybe, hence the name "Ashley."
*Brock is a drinking, meat-headed misogynist.
*Ash is a quiet, studious, thoughtful fellow with dreams of a career in engineering (Also, he apparently was learning to play the cello).
*Brock browbeats Ash for not being more "manly."
*Cheryl is the older sister who sometimes 'authoritates' all over Ash like she's their mother (I think you could almost read that into her performance in ED), hence why she's the only one to call him "Ashley" (I think).
*The cabin weekend happens, and Ash naturally 'mans up,' perhaps hitching himself to his father's image as a coping mechanism, as Ash was brought up to believe that being the way his father is would make him strong.
*30 years later, Ash never realized the inevitable conclusion to that coping mechanism--he's become a loser.

I dunno. I hate to keep talking about it (sorta, haha), but the characterization of Ash on the show really bugs me. It's a missed opportunity to do some of the best character studying in television and they're botching it for cheap laughs. They've teased us with character depth for Ash in the first season and the second season promos. I hope it translates to the actual episodes from here on out.
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

MaidOfKandar said:
@Joe - It's interesting to me that they're firmly saying "yes, the movie happened in/around 1981" after being vague last season. There's a general feeling.  That would actually be interesting, since he'd be trying to emulate someone like Scott.

(Also the number of beer bottles in there was kinda WTF-worthy.  If his parents were hard-asses how the hell did he get away with that much boozing in...what, three years if he's 21? Would his parents let him drink underage?).

Looping around to answer everyone.

@Doc

Here's the way i look at ash in this show and the way he act's i don't know if it  will make sense to you or anyone else but this is the just way i look at it, i look at it as ash going through a mid life crisis and this is where the ladies man,not giving a shit and i don't care attitude stems from, i tend to look at it from that perspective then it just being ash just being ash i mean that is a recurring theme through out the first season and him dealing with old emotional scars in his own way, when you add in his relationship with pablo and kelly he becomes very protective of them both right after ep 5 and basically considers them his family, him saving them both and the relationship he built with them over the course of s1 actually had a lot of depth to it even if it was half assed and was confusing at times the intention's were still there and was probably the best character arc ash had in season 1  . *UNPOPULAR OPINION INCOMING* i really enjoy this version of ash  because if you look past all ladies man,racist, macho bravdo BS he throws out to keep his image, that sensitive/personal side of ash we've seen from the films is still there even if it's just in short bursts. 

Ash characterization in this show really hasn't bothered me the only time it did was in ep 9 (Thank god rob wright isn't writing again for season 2) for the most part all the episodes i enjoyed what they were trying to accomplish and they half succeeded in doing it.


@Maid

They did say he learned a lot of his bad habits from his father so take that as you will, OR chet had a hand in starting his drinking habits by sneaking beer over. Who knows *shrug*
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Life_Gets_Teejus said:
Here's an interesting interview with Bruce I came across, gotta say it doesn't do much to quell my concerns about this season. There's a particularly interesting bit that I'm going to quote here, where Bruce basically confirms something else I've felt about this series and don't care much for.


                     "[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ash is the Vietnam veteran now. He’s the guy at the end of the bar going “That’s not going to work”. “How do you know?” “I know”. It’s a little bit like that. Well, and here’s the truth of it; I remember John Wayne only as an old guy. What he would do is when he knew he was an old guy, he started putting like Glen Campbell in it and he always had a singer. He’d put a young singer in his movies cause that’s for the young people. They’ll like Glen Campbell, he’s a good singer. So this is the case. Ash is surrounding himself by young, attractive people, and I’ve got a very good stuntman — Raicho Vasilev..." Bruce Campbell on Ash's place in the story[/font][font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Read more: http://www.shockya.com/news/2016/07/28/bruce-campbell-ash-vs-evil-dead-season-2/#ixzz4H3mrHKUG[/font]



[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My dad has a thing about John Wayne movies and I believe I've seen them all at some point during my childhood, and Bruce is correct, once John Wayne hit a certain age, he always had a pair of young 'love birds' (likable actor and actress as sidekicks to provide drama or something similar of that nature). I remember thinking about the similarities between the formula for those old movies, and the formula for AshvED as I was watching season 1 unfold. [/font]

[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]     I've been reading about this new Baal character, a human appearing demon who is a "master of torture" and the most formidable foe Ash has faced yet. I hate to be redundant, but yet again I've heard that one somewhere before (cough-Supernatural-cough). The lack of originality as far as the writing goes really grates on me. You've got a franchise where virtually any character can be possessed, including inanimate objects, an ancient book that remains mysterious in that nobody has really outlined everything that it does, leaving that open to creative interpretation, and the best you can come up with is a 2nd army of Darkness? The Evil Dead universe is like the ultimate playground, and Sam gave these guys a lot of freedom here, and all they seem to do is recycle material from other franchises. I don't get it.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]    There are a few things I'm looking forward to though, I don't want to be the eternal downer. I am super-excited about Ellen Sandweiss returning, even in a small role (they may not handle it the way I'd like, but it'll be great to see her). I'm really hoping for some improved one-liners for Ash and the gang too. Speaking of attractive sidekicks, I actually rather like Kelly's character and look forward to seeing what they decide to do there. I hope if they have to off her that she's given a bad-ass way to go out. I'm also looking forward to a more jaded version of Pablo, his earnestness was endearing at first, but has begun to set my teeth on edge. Let the man get angry, he's been through some shit. [/font]

That Wayne policy is what led to McClintock!  That's all that needs to be said there :p

I agree completely.  It's like they're afraid to add anything really substantial onto the franchise and say 'this is Evil Dead too'.  It's like they want to keep it on a lighter level but keep dipping downward. And there's a reason why it's not working.

I found this quote even sadder and more telling:

[font=Tahoma,]I hope that they see the humor in it and no kid will ever really try to be like Ash. God forbid. They’re going to be walking around in their junior high school. Where can I get some angel dust man? Ash smokes it, come on let’s go.[/font]

Ash was a perfectly admirable character pre-show and everyone's hit the reasons why and Bruce has always been blind to that fact (Also we are starting to run out of hallucinogens to do.  What's he going to do next season, move to downers?  Is he going to end his life shooting smack?)

Also the way he keeps begging them to renew the show for season three is embarrassing.  Like, I get it, you're as salesman, you've always sold yourself to crowds at cons.  This is going to do nothing to convince Starz to pony up money. It was like the ultra-embarrassing Emmy push that got them nowhere.

Either way I'm excited about Ellen's cameo too (I hope it's more than a reshoot and I hope we get, I don't know, some kind of actual interaction between the siblings).

Joem1k said:
@Maid

I have a theory about those weight's, if you look closely at the wall there are two that have been thrown into the wall probably out sheer frustration and anger and there's hardly any weights on the bar itself, i have a feeling ash was still a nerd/geek judging by the cello and various pop culture items and posters scattered around his room, i think once he got to high school i have a feeling that's where he started to try and change his image and persona around and began copying some of his dad's attitude and behaviors to try and fit in which i think for the most part worked but as you can tell the cabin vist and everything after that ash just grew accustomed to living that lifestyle to cope with the pain and responsibility of looking after that book. I think that's probably why ash considers pablo such a good friend to him because he see's his much younger nerdier side in pablo, that's just how i see it with the weights. 


Yeah i  also have a  feeling Post-AOD ash decided to make a quick stop back in his hometown to grab a few trinkets and personal things before hitting the road and not looking back to live on the road while guarding the book and keeping it hidden away in his trailer, he really did a good job of not awakening the evil force for those 30 years so the lessons he learned from AOD must have been intact for a good while during his 30-40's before his mid life crisis during his 50's hit and well he got sloppy and reckless with his responsibility's and well here we are now.

You're right; it looks like at least one of them went through the wall, if you look closely behind the rack.

I like that idea. Then again they have to explain the fact that he went back to the S-Mart post-movies.  

I'd love for them to inject an actual sense of responsibility into his actions retroactively.  


DocLathropBrown said:
MaidOfKandar said:
Also Ash just fled his room post-AOD and he didn't take a single thing with him?  It looks like maybe he took a couple of albums and a couple of books, bought the trailer and skedaddled.

It certainly looks that way. I really think Ash returned home from his weekend at the Cabin/1300 A.D., maybe tried to explain what had happened, but shit hit the fan really quickly and he split town--never looking back.

That would be really tragic in any other show. With this one? They'll probably play it for laughs, which shortchanges the show overall. Ash might have been able to move-on to some degree and start rebuilding his life. Instead, the people who might have been able to fill the void left by his sister, friends and girlfriend all turned on him--worse, blamed him for the tragedy. A tragedy that he also endured. If they were smart, they'd play up a "I wish I had died instead" element to Ash. But they ain't that smart.

I think Bruce and the company really underestimate what general audiences respond to. He makes comparisons to The Walking Dead, but AvsED isn't even in the same league. Why is that? Because people connect with the characters on TWD. I don't even watch TWD and I know that. But can new viewers connect with Ash, the main character of Ash Vs. The Evil Dead? I'd bet not.

Ash, as characterized in the show, only appeals to existing ED fans, I think. New viewers have to grow attached to characters because they like them. What is there to like about Ash in the series? Nothing. Had Ash actually been this way from the beginning, I wouldn't have given a rat's ass about the trilogy.

If the point of Ash in the show is that he's supposed to be cool--he isn't. Badass? How badass is the guy when he lets the villain win so he can run away? Because he's a ladies man? He's deliberately portrayed as cheap, tacky and crass.

The ED franchise is too underground. They would do better to fix Ash as a character so that new audiences could find him compelling and latch onto him.

[/rant over]

They say constantly that the show is 'for the fans' and 'made because we demanded it'.  And we all know that's what they said about the remake.

And you're right about TWD; people give a shit about the characters because of the acting and because the backstory's rich.  

Ashenwraith said:
Bruce has been a TV actor for like the last 35+ years and probably did his best acting in Evil Dead 2 (no matter what he says about liking Brisco--I saw every episode and it was pure TV cheese, no acting required for 90%, just good looks and a grin).

I can't blame Bruce for anything.

However Sam Raimi did the best Spiderman and is still a big director. I expect much more QC from him, especially since in Bruce's book he claimed 'Bruce was just his puppet' and does whatever he says (I'm sure some of it was a joke, but that's how most directors do think and that's why they're directors).

It wouldn't be the first time a director ghost wrote/directed a movie--or at least told Bruce 'ED 4 script stars off with you in a trailer being a drunk jerk'.

Well, to be fair, Bruce did do a lot of movies in the between time - b-movies and indie movies but they still count as movies (Also Bubba Ho-Tep is some damn fine work from him, and I firmly disagree about Brisco being pure TV cheese).  

That was a joke in the prologue of the thing, if I remember correctly, and Bruce has repeatedly said in Q&as that everything in that prologue was a joke.

And if Bruce himself has taken on the responsibility of something publicly then you can surely blame him.

DocLathropBrown said:
MaidOfKandar said:
(Also the number of beer bottles in there was kinda WTF-worthy.  If his parents were hard-asses how the hell did he get away with that much boozing in...what, three years if he's 21? Would his parents let him drink underage?).

Looping around to answer everyone.

Also the straight-up maybe-porn on his wall.

Based on the person Brock seems to be, maybe he wouldn't care. Maybe he'd even buy Ash the beer, philosophizing that drinking is what real men do. I'd be willing to bet that Mrs. Williams died when Ash/Cheryl were young.

I'm a novelist and I'm actually tinkering with writing novelizations of the film trilogy (in between my original projects), I've done some preliminary work on the first film's book, giving thought to how to convey Ash's evolution, beyond the real-world issue of throwing continuity to-the-wind as Sam/Bruce did.

How I'd rationalize the character over the course of the trilogy/show is this:

*Mrs. Williams died when Ash and Cheryl were young. She was the sensitive parent.
*Ash was expected to be a girl maybe, hence the name "Ashley."
*Brock is a drinking, meat-headed misogynist.
*Ash is a quiet, studious, thoughtful fellow with dreams of a career in engineering (Also, he apparently was learning to play the cello).
*Brock browbeats Ash for not being more "manly."
*Cheryl is the older sister who sometimes 'authoritates' all over Ash like she's their mother (I think you could almost read that into her performance in ED), hence why she's the only one to call him "Ashley" (I think).
*The cabin weekend happens, and Ash naturally 'mans up,' perhaps hitching himself to his father's image as a coping mechanism, as Ash was brought up to believe that being the way his father is would make him strong.
*30 years later, Ash never realized the inevitable conclusion to that coping mechanism--he's become a loser.

I dunno. I hate to keep talking about it (sorta, haha), but the characterization of Ash on the show really bugs me. It's a missed opportunity to do some of the best character studying in television and they're botching it for cheap laughs. They've teased us with character depth for Ash in the first season and the second season promos. I hope it translates to the actual episodes from here on out.

According to Bruce Ash's mom is still alive out there (he asked Carrie Fisher and Lynda Carter to play her, which is hilarious because both women are around Bruce's age).  Your canon for this is beautiful, though.  

A lot of the show's problems seem to stem from one thing: we've got a canon that's generally seriocomic but they've decided to generally go for full-on comedic, to the point where when serious things happen (like Kelly's possession or the high stakes in the cabin) it's hard to believe in it.  There were about two effective serious moments that they gave us for me in the show entire, and I think it's the whiplash moo they've set up that's to blame.  They just keep playing on the "Ash is a cowardly loser, look at him being a cowardly loser, this is funny to me because I like poking my friend in his ankle and forgetting anything about continuity" trope.

Joem1k said:
MaidOfKandar said:
@Joe - It's interesting to me that they're firmly saying "yes, the movie happened in/around 1981" after being vague last season. There's a general feeling.  That would actually be interesting, since he'd be trying to emulate someone like Scott.

(Also the number of beer bottles in there was kinda WTF-worthy.  If his parents were hard-asses how the hell did he get away with that much boozing in...what, three years if he's 21? Would his parents let him drink underage?).

Looping around to answer everyone.

@Doc

Here's the way i look at ash in this show and the way he act's i don't know if it  will make sense to you or anyone else but this is the just way i look at it, i look at it as ash going through a mid life crisis and this is where the ladies man,not giving a shit and i don't care attitude stems from, i tend to look at it from that perspective then it just being ash just being ash i mean that is a recurring theme through out the first season and him dealing with old emotional scars in his own way, when you add in his relationship with pablo and kelly he becomes very protective of them both right after ep 5 and basically considers them his family, him saving them both and the relationship he built with them over the course of s1 actually had a lot of depth to it even if it was half assed and was confusing at times the intention's were still there and was probably the best character arc ash had in season 1  . *UNPOPULAR OPINION INCOMING* IDKW but i really enjoy this version of ash  because if you look past all ladies man,racist, macho bravdo BS he throws out to keep his image, that sensitive/personal side of ash we've seen from the films is still there even if it's just in short bursts. 

Ash characterization in this show really hasn't bothered me the only time it did was in ep 9 (Thank god rob wright isn't writing again for this show) for the most part all the episodes i enjoyed what they were trying to accomplish and they half succeeded in doing it.


@Maid

They did say he learned a lot of his bad habits from his father so take that as you will, OR chet had a hand in starting his drinking habits by sneaking beer over. Who knows *shrug*

Like Doc said, I really wish they'd mine this material for pathos.  There's so much pathos underlying in the idea that Ash is basically faking it with his Magnum condoms and his bathroom sink fuckings and his put-on-swagger.
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Apparently in addition to floating according to this Nerdist interview Pablo is naked during the course of the show.  That's happening.  

Also sounds like you're getting one of your wishes RE Pablo's character development, Joe!
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

MaidOfKandar said:
Apparently in addition to floating according to this Nerdist interview Pablo is naked during the course of the show.  That's happening.  

Also sounds like you're getting one of your wishes RE Pablo's character development, Joe!
They've been mentioning this in every interview and the panel, i bet it's probably going to be just for one scene, they also hammed it up alot  for this interview as they were probably on the clock but anyways looking past that, bruce and the others seem really excited for where his character is going to be going by the end of this season.

[img=300x169]https://media.giphy.com/media/oNlovU1bJOcYE/giphy.gif[/img]
Looking forward to the journey pablo's gonna take for this season, hyped as hell for it while at the same time scared for what his about to endure to get to that point. #Pablosgonnaexperiencesomeshit  (S2 hashtag for pablo :P ) 
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

MaidOfKandar said:
Apparently in addition to floating according to this Nerdist interview Pablo is naked during the course of the show.  That's happening.  

Also sounds like you're getting one of your wishes RE Pablo's character development, Joe!

Who seriously wants to see Pablo naked? :-/

Even Lucy Lawless was unwanted from any but the most desperate fanboy. Seemed totally out of place when they jumped into the fire just so they could do a GoT nudity shot.
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Ashenwraith said:
MaidOfKandar said:
Apparently in addition to floating according to this Nerdist interview Pablo is naked during the course of the show.  That's happening.  

Also sounds like you're getting one of your wishes RE Pablo's character development, Joe!

Who seriously wants to see Pablo naked? :-/

Even Lucy Lawless was unwanted from any but the most desperate fanboy. Seemed totally out of place when they jumped into the fire just so they could do a GoT nudity shot.

It's going to come down to the execution of it, be it  for a gross scene or for a love scene (*COUGH*) we'll have to just wait and see what happens there with that, plus they were just hamming it up for the audience that was there as well so it's best to not look to far into the smart-ass comments that cast throw at each other. 

Actually that scene was kinda integral to the plot as it showed that ruby was more then what she seemed  to be even if the shot looked similar to GoT's, it's not really that big of deal IMHO neither is the pablo stuff either.
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Ashenwraith said:
MaidOfKandar said:
Apparently in addition to floating according to this Nerdist interview Pablo is naked during the course of the show.  That's happening.  

Also sounds like you're getting one of your wishes RE Pablo's character development, Joe!

Who seriously wants to see Pablo naked? :-/

Even Lucy Lawless was unwanted from any but the most desperate fanboy. Seemed totally out of place when they jumped into the fire just so they could do a GoT nudity shot.

I don't know who you have been talking to, but Lucy was a welcome edition by just about everyone except the most ardent hater/shit stirrer... and she is far from a simple fanboy's dream because her and Bruce have amazing chemistry together. Not to mention to fact that the show needed a strong female that could be around for a while. It is clear that Pablo will get the most growth this season even if it has to happen in the nude.
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Nick el Ass said:
[]...growth this season even if it has to happen in the nude.

This isn't a porno, nothing 'HAS' to happen nude.

If they go full Spartacus and start dropping dongs and peeing on people I gotta say I'm out.
 
RE: Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Ashenwraith said:
Nick el Ass said:
[]...growth this season even if it has to happen in the nude.

This isn't a porno, nothing 'HAS' to happen nude.

If they go full Spartacus and start dropping dongs and peeing on people I gotta say I'm out.

:dodgy:  *sigh*
Like i said before, this should not be taken as that big of a deal and no i highly doubt there gonna go full Spartacus, evil dead has had nudity before in the movies so i have no idea why they shouldn't be allowed to do it here in the show, feels like were kinda nitpicking this one here so i'm just gonna see myself out of this debate before it starts to get really going.

[img=300x225]http://replygif.net/i/160.gif[/img]
 
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