Ash vs Evil Dead Season 3 General Discussion Thread

Surtur said:
I have no discomfort over it, it just seems a shame you can’t find really anything at all to enjoy from it. We must be of similar age because I have been a fan roughly that time too, and I’m personally very happy to have any Ash at all since it seemed for so long he was lost to us and we were forced to have him through the comics only. As much as I love the show, it has its flaws for sure and I can agree with that but I think the good far outweighs the bad.

As a whole, what is so hateable about it? I’ve read a few of your comments but give me the condensed version, I’m genuinely curious
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No, I'm not gonna go into that now. I've explained my opinions, my criticism and my overall stance on the show very clearly and very thoroughly in hundreds of posts already. I'm sorry, but there is no "condensed version" to give you. If you really are genuinely curious about it, you can click on my profile and read my old posts. I think I've commented in every single episode thread so far and also on each of the full season threads. If you go back to the beginning of season one and start reading from there, you can see the entire process I went through while watching the show.

I'm glad to see you're also an old time fan. It shows that we're both coming from the same place. One thing I've already said a couple times around here is that Evil Dead means different things to different people. The things some fans love about it may not be the same things for everybody. Personally, I haven't seen much of what I love about Evil Dead in the show and I have major issues with concept, writing and characterization. Some people may be satisfied with just seeing more Evil Dead in any form and getting any type of continuation with Bruce as Ash. Some people may think the good outweighs the bad. That's good and I'm happy for all of you who feel that way. It's just that to me, the bad outweighs the good. I don't think the show is good as an Evil Dead product, as a continuation of the films or simply as a TV show. And I know I'm not alone in this. Even if I'm probably the most vocal critic of the show currently on the forums, eViL DeAdiTe, Muzzlehatch, Sutter Cane and quite a few other regular members have also shown a consistently negative opinion of it. Even MaidOfKandar's opinions have been pretty mixed since it premiered and I think a lot of her criticism is spot on. Even if she isn't as negative about the show as a whole as I am, on certain things she can be an even harsher critic than I am.

Guy said:
Since first watching the Evil Dead trilogy, I've been reading the Army of Darkness comics pretty much since their inception. When the show started, the tone of Ash in it pretty much matched up with where the character left off in AoD and evolved to in comics/video game media in the quiet years since. He became a sex obsessed dimwitted blowhard in those intervening years and when the show appeared I felt ready to accept this version of Ash from pretty much the get go. I see that being most people's issue with the show on these boards; that and regularly trying to apply continuity to a series that, across three movies, comics, video games, etc NEVER had any consistent continuity.

At all.
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I've addressed those arguments many times before and explained why I think they're very flawed. So I'm just gonna say I respectfully disagree with everything you just said there.
 
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Guy said:
Since first watching the Evil Dead trilogy, I've been reading the Army of Darkness comics pretty much since their inception. When the show started, the tone of Ash in it pretty much matched up with where the character left off in AoD and evolved to in comics/video game media in the quiet years since. He became a sex obsessed dimwitted blowhard in those intervening years and when the show appeared I felt ready to accept this version of Ash from pretty much the get go. I see that being most people's issue with the show on these boards; that and regularly trying to apply continuity to a series that, across three movies, comics, video games, etc NEVER had any consistent continuity.

At all.
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Ahh, but the thing with the comics is that that they were published across various continuities and publishers over the span of over ten years, which is why the discontinuity.

Also comics continuity characterization for Ash is all over the place. There's a volume where he grows up and becomes a responsible husband to Sheila - and one where he has long conversations out loud with his penis. He's not always that horny blowhard.

Kevin said:
Starz ordered another half hour "apocalypse" comedy:

https://www.spoilertv.com/2018/03/now-apocalypse-comedy-from-steven.html?m=1

Will be interesting to ser if they potentially pair this with Ash VS Evil Dead season 4 next year or replace Ash VS Evil Dead with this.

Any thoughts?
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Soderbergh and Araki sound like a match made in hell. Either this will be AvED's slot mate or it'll replace it in a shot at getting a prestige Sci Fi project like Twin Peaks off the ground at the network. Girlfriend Experience and AvEd have the worst ratings on the net at the moment and Starz has something like six projects in preparation of being aired; one or both are going to end up being cancelled in lieu of them picking this up; I'm leaning toward Girlfriend Experience, since this seems to be part of Soderbergh's production deal with Starz.

DyD said:
I'm glad to see you're also an old time fan. It shows that we're both coming from the same place. One thing I've already said a couple times around here is that Evil Dead means different things to different people. The things some fans love about it may not be the same things for everybody. Personally, I haven't seen much of what I love about Evil Dead in the show and I have major issues with concept, writing and characterization. Some people may be satisfied with just seeing more Evil Dead in any form and getting any type of continuation with Bruce as Ash. Some people may think the good outweighs the bad. That's good and I'm happy for all of you who feel that way. It's just that to me, the bad outweighs the good. I don't think the show is good as an Evil Dead product, as a continuation of the films or simply as a TV show. And I know I'm not alone in this. Even if I'm probably the most vocal critic of the show currently on the forums, eViL DeAdiTe, Muzzlehatch, Sutter Cane and quite a few other regular members have also shown a consistently negative opinion of it. Even MaidOfKandar's opinions have been pretty mixed since it premiered and I think a lot of her criticism is spot on. Even if she isn't as negative about the show as a whole as I am, on certain things she can be an even harsher critic than I am.
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Completely true, especially the last bit about me. I want to thank you both for discussing this in a mature manner. Like I've said before, I think there's room for unmitigated joy, fanpersoning and excitement and also leavened, intelligent criticism of the show on the board.
 
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MaidOfKandar said:
Ahh, but the thing with the comics is that that they were published across various continuities and publishers over the span of over ten years, which is why the discontinuity.

Also comics continuity characterization for Ash is all over the place. There's a volume where he grows up and becomes a responsible husband to Sheila - and one where he has long conversations out loud with his penis. He's not always that horny blowhard.
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Oh I totally understand that the comics were put together by a multitude of different parties. It's simply that in the intervening period where there were no Evil Dead movies/TV show, I had to get my Ash fix where I could get it, which meant accepting slight changes or over-exaggerations to the character that got added over time.

Even in Evil Dead: Regeneration, one of his first lines is telling his lawyer:
"You know, I bet you could be some kind of a knockout if you traded in the granny wear for some high thigh stockings and a bra that pushed up your yams."

And that was all Bruce. Even in Fistful of Boomstick he was asking female professors if they were wearing panties.

My point is this was an evolving process for the character that appeared to happen in all of the 'not canon' media before the character returned in the show, and by that point I'd accepted that this is who people thought Ash was now.
 
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Guy said:
Even in Evil Dead: Regeneration, one of his first lines is telling his lawyer:
"You know, I bet you could be some kind of a knockout if you traded in the granny wear for some high thigh stockings and a bra that pushed up your yams."
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It's funny that you pick this example because overall I can connect ED:R's Ash much better to his AoD character than his portrayal in AvED. Yeah, the game has ist fair share of sexual humor, but I find the game to be much more balanced than the show.
 
Muzzlehatch said:
It's funny that you pick this example because overall I can connect ED:R's Ash much better to his AoD character than his portrayal in AvED. Yeah, the game has ist fair share of sexual humor, but I find the game to be much more balanced than the show.
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Agreed. I found his character in all 3 games to be 'closer' to what I thought Ash would be following AoD and a natural continuation.

Again though, this is a character that gets broader and broader with every passing instalment so it's natural that another eleven years after Regeneration's portrayal, he'd be even more outlandishly broad. I know the game isn't canon, but it's the same performer (who's also producing) so it makes a kind of sense.

I remember watching The Evil Dead and being blown away, then following him into Evil Dead 2 and loving this new twitchy mad man he'd evolved into, then suddenly he was all heroic and confident at the end of that movie and I'd enjoyed the madness so much I just laughed along with it. Then I remember watching Army of Darkness days later and suddenly he's spouting 'Jack and Shit' style one-liners, catching Chainsaws on his stump and whipping his belt onto chains, shotgunning over his shoulder and mouthing off to everyone, being ignorant and wacky and it was such a complete departure of character from ED 1 and even ED 2 that I honestly didn't know how to react to it at all. Obviously it grew on me as it grew on us all.

When the show debuted I was pretty much ready for Ash to be anything at that point, because why would the Ash from the show be anything like Ash from the movies when Ash in each instalment is nothing like Ash is in any of the others?
 
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I think AVED Ash is very much a direct continuation of AoD Ash combined with 30 years of beer and booze, pot, low class lady friends and dive bars. The sexualizing in AoD would have been way worse had it been rated R and unrestricted like the show is.
 
Guy said:
Oh I totally understand that the comics were put together by a multitude of different parties. It's simply that in the intervening period where there were no Evil Dead movies/TV show, I had to get my Ash fix where I could get it, which meant accepting slight changes or over-exaggerations to the character that got added over time.

Even in Evil Dead: Regeneration, one of his first lines is telling his lawyer:
"You know, I bet you could be some kind of a knockout if you traded in the granny wear for some high thigh stockings and a bra that pushed up your yams."

And that was all Bruce. Even in Fistful of Boomstick he was asking female professors if they were wearing panties.

My point is this was an evolving process for the character that appeared to happen in all of the 'not canon' media before the character returned in the show, and by that point I'd accepted that this is who people thought Ash was now.
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*nods* Oh definitely! For me it's always the comics, and always having to adjust to idea x or y to get the right fix. Nothing's ever topped Ash vs the AOD and Ash Gets Hitched for me;

I'll add on to Muzzlehatch's point; in Regeneration, he definitely says that - and immediately castigates himself for saying it when he's alone ("Baby smooth, Asherino") and then we find out that his quest to save the lawyer lady was an attempt to apologize for the faux pas. To me the two games really do have a better picture of who Ash should've become after what he's gone through; still has his moral core, is still awkward as hell when he's not in the presence of demons, still has one liners, still gruff until he gets attached to someone.

Kevin said:
Ash received 180,000 again this week in ratings:

https://www.spoilertv.com/2018/03/final-adjusted-tv-ratings-for-sunday_27.html?m=1
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Adding a bit more info, it made it to 95 on the list.

Surtur said:
I think AVED Ash is very much a direct continuation of AoD Ash combined with 30 years of beer and booze, pot, low class lady friends and dive bars. The sexualizing in AoD would have been way worse had it been rated R and unrestricted like the show is.
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AOD is rated R though. By current standards it wouldn't rate higher than a PG-13, but yep, it was released as an R!

We do have a deleted Ash/Sheila love scene that made the Euro market, so Sam and Bruce and Rob could've leaned in that direction IF they wanted to. Big if. (I know Sam deleted that scene because he thought it was too serious).
 
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@MaidOfKandar you are correct. Yes it’s so tame by today’s standards and even by its predecessors’ standards that I forgot it was R. At any rate, I’m just maybe not as shocked or upset at how he is now. I’ve literally known so many people like that, the type that will drink an 18 pack of cheap beer and wake up in the yard, but they aren’t college kids they are in their 50s. I’m sure it’s been pointed out in the past here, but unresolved and repressed trauma would do funny things to the human psyche
 
@Surtur It's all good! And yep, I wouldn't hesitate to show the non-Euro cut of AOD to a group of teenagers; by today's standards even with the body horror that happens in the mill scene and the pit scene it doesn't feel much beyond a PG-13. I get where you're coming from!


Ruby's latest creation is her most diabolical plan yet to turn Brandy against Ash; Pablo suspects something isn't right with Kelly when she meets him and Ash at the school; chaos ensues when evil shows up at the dance.
 
Muzzlehatch said:
I did not know that. Here in Germany we have a different Rating system of course. I think here it was rated for 16 years olds on release.

Why did Sam go without heavy gore in this one when it was rated R?
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Yep, I think it got a 15 certificate for German and other European markets, because that's what it has in the UK. the European cut's got more nudity, more gore and the sex scene, so that's likely why.

This I don't know, but on the commentary track for the movie Sam and Bruce talk about how they deliberately were trying to push the movie toward an R in the cut they gave the MPAA.
 
Elise41 said:
Army of Darkness is rated R because the MPAA are a bunch of asswipes. They even wanted to slap NC-17 on it originally for no good reason. Something to do with it being the third in the trilogy, they seemingly wanted to sabotage it.
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YES now I remember that!

"It's a cumulative effect." "It's got skeletons turning into dust, how is that an R?"
 
I remember the Joe Pesci quote from bruce on that situation. (might be incorrect on this, correct me if i'm wrong)

"Joe Pesci can stab a guy 15 times with a f**king ice pick and get away with a pg-13 rating, but a army of skeleton's is a hard R?" - Bruce
 
Joem1k said:
I remember the Joe Pesci quote from bruce on that situation. (might be incorrect on this, correct me if i'm wrong)

"Joe Pesci can stab a guy 15 times with a f**king ice pick and get away with a pg-13 rating, but a army of skeleton's is a hard R?" - Bruce
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"Every other word in that movie was mf-this and mf-that!"
 
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