Ash vs Evil Dead Season 2 General Discussion Thread [MARK YOUR SPOILERS!]

[Nick el Ass]

Bruce and Lucy are doing a Q&A on Twitter right now. All you have to do is go to the Ash vs evil Dead page, and use #AskAVED.

Actually that q&a is on sunday actually.

I guess that is what happens when you don't read well, hahah. I actually saw it on Facebook which only showed it was on Sunday in the image, and I didn't scroll all the way down... but I guess they will be using some question sent in advance. My apologies.

 

[Ashenwraith]

I think S02 has better overall atmosphere, but S01 had better writing and cinematography/overall picture quality.

IE, S01 had some genuinely EDish hilarious moments like Ash replacing his dentures in S0101 or when Pab's and Kelly fought the gas mask deadite together. Plus S01 cabin was like 3 solid Eps (90ish min) and was much better than the 20ish min we got so far with only 30 min of cabin left.

 

[MaidOfKandar]

JMO, the writing was pretty juvenile in season one and there were a ton of shortcomings in it (Amanda, Amanda, Amanda).

This season's biggest problem is that it spent half its running time churning through stuff that didn't matter to the central plot. Characters were shoddily written or put together on a grander scale.

 

[Ashenwraith]

Yeah but Amanda was better than Sheriff, Lacey, Chet, and Brock put together.

Spoiler

Hell, I'd even say she was better than Pablo and Kelly up until they did the romance thing, I like that they killed her, just wish they would have done it better like the way they pretended to kill Pablo like 10 times in S02. What a waste of gore, death scenes, effects, and acting.

Visuals aside, S01 is like ED made into a crappy TV Show.

But S02 is like S01 made into horrible fan fiction. Like the stuff you'd expect to find written on one of those sites, but somehow it ended up being funded and acted out in front of a camera. You know where the writing is like, "And then a Sheriff appears and says "bla, bla, bla" and then he randomly dies--TIME WARP--now we are at the cabin somehow and Ash is fighting mini Ashes!"

 

[Joem1k]

Yeah but Amanda was better than Sheriff, Lacey, Chet, and Brock put together. Hell, I'd even say she was better than Pablo and Kelly up until they did the romance thing, I like that they killed her, just wish they would have done it better like the way they pretended to kill Pablo like 10 times in S02. What a waste of gore, death scenes, effects, and acting.

This just my own personal opinion but i never got what was so special about amanda's character, she was probably my least favorite character out of s1, she was just the cliched cop character who spent most of that season hunting them down before doing a complete 180 turn around and just decided to fall in love with ash before dieing imo she was the wasted the character of that season and really deserved more then what she got, that whole first season was really a feeling out season and you could tell severely, hell even the creators felt s1 wasn't all that great and that's saying something.  

Chet, Brock and Emery i felt were not really wasted characters and actually had depth to them then just being cliched characters like amanda was, yes i will agree they killed them off way to early but at least there characters were given proper layers and depth before they axed them. 

Season 2 was not a waste at all and i will explain this in my overview post here in a little while !

 

[Joem1k]

Alright i'm gonna bullet point this one out for the things i liked what i was mixed on and what i disliked about this season and then i will suggest would could be done better for season 3, Let's get into it ! 


SEASON 2 OVERVIEW 

What i liked 

- The main four characters this year i felt were better written,felt more alive acting wise and got  more layers and depth this season, plus it was probably the main highlight for me this season getting to know these characters more in general and seeing them develop more as the season went on which was great to watch week by week. 

- The Practical effect's, set's and atmosphere were amazing this year, they really went all out this season with the practical effects,set's and overall general atmosphere. Yes there was some usages of cgi in this season but it wasn't as bad as s1's use of it plus the cgi for the most part when it was used blended well for the scenes it was needed in except for some scenes it did stick out like a sore thumb but for the most  the cgi balance this year was way better in contrast to s1. 

- The pacing was better handled this year as every minute/second counted with each episode, and they really jam packed the episodes with a lot of stuff to the point where i didn't even notice it was still a half hour long show. Overall they really figured out how to handle the half hour slot better this year then in s1 and it showed. 

-The world just felt more alive this season and i'm personally glad they decided to go the route of sticking to a small hometown setting, there was a lot of memorable minor characters this year as well and it reminded me of how the minor characters were in AoD they weren't key to the story but they all still had memorable moments as well. Gonna list off my favorite ones (The hooker from episode 5, the drunk hobo *My personal favorite*, the nerdy highschool kid who walked in on ash holding a severed head, The heroine addict from ep 8 *A weird choice i know but for some reason she was quite entertaining to watch*) 

-The main villian for this season was really awesome, yeah he was a bit cliched but he wasn't anything i've quite seen before in the evil dead universe and was really quite the pain in the ass until the bitter end, i hope we get to see him return in the future and see him get expanded on more as a villain and character, but overall joel tobeck did a awesome job this season as "baal" ! 

-The Deadites were handled way better this season and actually felt like real deadites, they didn't feel like those one note deadites from s1. Every deadite this season delivered imho  

-Joseph's score overall was the main center fold this season and i couldn't have been happier as it really helped a lot of the emotional scenes this season had really come to life. I'm really glad they decided to dial back on the pop-culture songs this season, when they were used they were perfect for the moment at hand. But overall i'm really glad they joseph's score shine through this season !  

What i was mixed on.  

-The side characters that were provided this season were great (Chet,Brock,and Emery) most of them were provided with enough depth and layers to there characters but, they killed them off too soon and didn't give them enough of a chance to really sink our teeth into them and it's really quite a shame as most of them had really tragic backstories and depth that could have been expanded on to give there characters that extra mile. But the reason i put this on the mixed section is because i felt they provided enough for what was there but felt they killed them off before there characters started to really pick up steam.  

-While i really enjoyed the main villain this season as he was quite the formidable foe for ash and his gang plus how they got more creative with the kandarian demon possessing stuff , i couldn't help but feel the creative demons were lacking this season a bit, i still enjoyed what i got but i hope for season 3 there will be more creative demons from the book like eligos was. 


 -The amount of fanservice this year was to a word OVERBOARD, i do appreciate the show calling back to the original films immensely but they didn't need to remake whole scenes out in general, it was completely unnecessary, but when they did the fanservice right it was well done.  Like bringing cheryl back into the fold, they did a lot of original stuff with her character while still paying homage to her as a whole and actually expanded on her character in the process ! While i enjoyed Henrietta and knowby's inclusion, cheryl's return and her role through the final episodes of this season was 10x better IMHO. 

What i disliked.  

-They went a bit overboard with the sleazy stuff this year, i usually don't mind it and just tend to ignore that stuff to focus on the important stuff but it was kinda glaring how much there was this year with the kinky sex jokes. It didn't bother me but it's something they really need to pull the dial back on IMMENSELY for s3.

-Some of the connective tissue between episodes was a bit wonky this year and some of the those small details connecting those certain episodes got buried underneath the fast pacing or hidden in the small pieces of dialogue or a visual cue. 


IN-SUMMARY 

This season was a massive step-up from s1, it just felt more alive and vibrant this year, a lot of the problems s1 had was addressed and fixed but this season still had it's problems but for the most part every episode delivered this season and i actually had more fun with this season then i did with s1. 

Now onto what they could do better in s3. 


What could be fixed and expanded on more for s3. 

-They need to dial back on the kinky sex jokes and try to focus more on the story-telling aspect more then anything else while still infusing some slight physical/dark comedy in the mix.  

-If they bring in new side characters for s3, let them actually survive for half the damn season instead of killing them off 3 episodes in and actually expand on them more or at the very least actually have them survive the season (Example : Linda B)  

-More explanation on the use of time travel and the effects it has on the overall current present timeline. 

-More expansion/exploration of the book's demons and the underworld, and why ash is the chosen one 

-More creative demons

-More gadget's / weapon attachments for ash *Just a personal request from me*

-Less use of automatic weapons and more physical in your face melee or dire encounters with the deadites or demons. 

-Dial down the use of fan-service and riffs of past scenes from the movies, but if needed be original in going about it or doing something new with it. (Example : What was done with cheryl's character) 

-More expansion on Pablo's heritage and brujo abilities. 

-And more of those short stories that they made for s2, those were quite excellent and were a great side companion for s2 *Especially the "rodger" one* 


Alright's that about it from me, see you guys around springtime for when we start getting more info on s3,  have a good season break everyone !

[img=200x150]https://media.giphy.com/media/kJFpAlbh2M4BW/giphy.gif[/img]


  *LURK MODE, ENGAGED*

 

[Ashenwraith]

Yeah but Amanda was better than Sheriff, Lacey, Chet, and Brock put together. Hell, I'd even say she was better than Pablo and Kelly up until they did the romance thing, I like that they killed her, just wish they would have done it better like the way they pretended to kill Pablo like 10 times in S02. What a waste of gore, death scenes, effects, and acting.

This just my own personal opinion but i never got what was so special about amanda's character, she was probably my least favorite character out of s1, she was just the cliched cop character who spent most of that season hunting them down before doing a complete 180 turn around and just decided to fall in love with ash before dieing imo she was the wasted the character of that season and really deserved more then what she got, that whole first season was really a feeling out season and you could tell severely, hell even the creators felt s1 wasn't all that great and that's saying something.  

Chet, Brock and Emery i felt were not really wasted characters and actually had depth to them then just being cliched characters like amanda was, yes i will agree they killed them off way to early but at least there characters were given proper layers and depth before they axed them. 

Season 2 was not a waste at all and i will explain this in my overview post here in a little while !

What was great about Amanda is simple: she was a cop who wasn't a push-over and had a good reason to be stalking Ash (partner scene fighting deadites in the house).

When Ruby was mixed in with her and then they started the romance stuff in the diner it just got dumb, but before that she was very solid for the role they gave her.

 

[Muzzlehatch]

Yeah but Amanda was better than Sheriff, Lacey, Chet, and Brock put together. Hell, I'd even say she was better than Pablo and Kelly up until they did the romance thing, I like that they killed her, just wish they would have done it better like the way they pretended to kill Pablo like 10 times in S02. What a waste of gore, death scenes, effects, and acting.

This just my own personal opinion but i never got what was so special about amanda's character, she was probably my least favorite character out of s1, she was just the cliched cop character who spent most of that season hunting them down before doing a complete 180 turn around and just decided to fall in love with ash before dieing imo she was the wasted the character of that season and really deserved more then what she got, that whole first season was really a feeling out season and you could tell severely, hell even the creators felt s1 wasn't all that great and that's saying something.  

Chet, Brock and Emery i felt were not really wasted characters and actually had depth to them then just being cliched characters like amanda was, yes i will agree they killed them off way to early but at least there characters were given proper layers and depth before they axed them. 

Season 2 was not a waste at all and i will explain this in my overview post here in a little while !

What was great about Amanda is simple: she was a cop who wasn't a push-over and had a good reason to be stalking Ash (partner scene fighting deadites in the house).

When Ruby was mixed in with her and then they started the romance stuff in the diner it just got dumb, but before that she was very solid for the role they gave her.

I agree with Ashen on this one. In the first episodes Amanda was the grounded, realistic counterpart the show needed against Ash's more cartoony character and his slap stick encounters with the dead. She could have been perfectly used as a bridge between ED2-AoD-horror-comedy and the straighter, more disturbing horror from the remake. Her perspective also provided more informations about the authorities' investigations on Ash. Sadly all that was given up in favour of their silly romance.

 

[Joem1k]

@ashen 

I liked her for about the first two episodes as she had potential in my eyes as well don't get me wrong but after episode 3 her character took a nose dive for me and she just became progressively more annoying as the episodes went on, then episode 7 happened and that was probably the final nail in the coffin for me in general. JMJ did a excellent job playing her and as a deadite but her character overall just did not gel with me like she did with you guys.  :-/

 

[MaidOfKandar]

Yeah but Amanda was better than Sheriff, Lacey, Chet, and Brock put together. Hell, I'd even say she was better than Pablo and Kelly up until they did the romance thing, I like that they killed her, just wish they would have done it better like the way they pretended to kill Pablo like 10 times in S02. What a waste of gore, death scenes, effects, and acting.

This just my own personal opinion but i never got what was so special about amanda's character, she was probably my least favorite character out of s1, she was just the cliched cop character who spent most of that season hunting them down before doing a complete 180 turn around and just decided to fall in love with ash before dieing imo she was the wasted the character of that season and really deserved more then what she got, that whole first season was really a feeling out season and you could tell severely, hell even the creators felt s1 wasn't all that great and that's saying something.  

Chet, Brock and Emery i felt were not really wasted characters and actually had depth to them then just being cliched characters like amanda was, yes i will agree they killed them off way to early but at least there characters were given proper layers and depth before they axed them. 

Season 2 was not a waste at all and i will explain this in my overview post here in a little while !

What was great about Amanda is simple: she was a cop who wasn't a push-over and had a good reason to be stalking Ash (partner scene fighting deadites in the house).

When Ruby was mixed in with her and then they started the romance stuff in the diner it just got dumb, but before that she was very solid for the role they gave her.

I agree with Ashen on this one. In the first episodes Amanda was the grounded, realistic counterpart the show needed against Ash's more cartoony character and his slap stick encounters with the dead. She could have been perfectly used as a bridge between ED2-AoD-horror-comedy and the straighter, more disturbing horror from the remake. Her perspective also provided more informations about the authorities' investigations on Ash. Sadly all that was given up in favour of their silly romance.

This is one of the reasons Amanda's probably been my most frustrating experience i the show's universe yet.  She started out interesting and complex.  What happened was the Ruby/Amanda stuff got the storyline short shrift - that could've been absolutely amazing if they'd given either actress something meaty to do - and it was downhill into the micro-romance and necrophilia jokes ever after.

 

[ehsteve]

If you haven't seen it, head on over to The AV Club. Michael Roffman (Who has been doing great reviews all season long) has a post-finale interview with Craig DiGregorio.

Apparently the reason the finale was such a huge mess was because it was completely rewritten at the last minute. Apparently Rob Tapert suddenly felt the urge to rub his big, smelly dick all over it at the last minute and... well... you've seen the results.

I don't know if DiGregorio's finale ending was any better... but... I dunno. It at least set up an interesting third season.

(I'd post a link, but I don't know if that's kosher to do on this board or not. If so, I will happily edit my post so y'all don't have to google it)

Shame. Real shame.

 

[MaidOfKandar]

If you haven't seen it, head on over to The AV Club. Michael Roffman (Who has been doing great reviews all season long) has a post-finale interview with Craig DiGregorio.

Apparently the reason the finale was such a huge mess was because it was completely rewritten at the last minute. Apparently Rob Tapert suddenly felt the urge to rub his big, smelly dick all over it at the last minute and... well... you've seen the results.

I don't know if DiGregorio's finale ending was any better... but... I dunno. It at least set up an interesting third season.

(I'd post a link, but I don't know if that's kosher to do on this board or not. If so, I will happily edit my post so y'all don't have to google it)

Shame. Real shame.

You can always link outside material/interviews here!   And here is the link.

And woooah holy shit, is this a revelation.  I am laughing my ass off at them basically blaming DiGregorio for stagnating the show and shoving in callbacks and pitching inappropriate ideas and DiGregorio blaming Rob for being uncreative and taking it too seriously, which led to his firing.  It looks like we can blame DiGregorio for the majority of the terrible comedic decisions we were subjected to since he wanted surface crap and Rob wanted more serious horror.  DiGregorio never seemed like he knew what he was talking about when he was on panels for the show.  Not surprised it ended like this.  Rob does come off as a power-tripping control freak in this, that much I will say.

Also I'm LOLing at the revelation that CDG fought for the colon fight, which is what killed them in the ratings.

Craig's idea sounds almost better, but dear god

Spoiler

The show didn't need to go that extra step and LITERALLY make Kelly Ash's bio daughter. After all of Ash's attempts at getting into her pants and the fact that he once again used his 'filthy but fine' line on her this season. it would've come off as grossly incestuous.

BTW, the finale actually got a C- from their reviewer.  The guy has been doing nothing but praising the show to high heavens all season.  That he actually gave it that is a MAJOR sign that they messed up.  There isn't a place on the internet that isn't filled with debate over this mess.

And wait - Mark Verheiden wrote the Evil Dead comic book adaption for Dark Horse?! THAT OOC shit-show that told us Deadites act like they do because of some deep dark impulse hidden in the host's bodies, de-siblingized Ash and Cheryl and had Ash give Linda the necklace because he "just wanted to get laid" and ended with an awkward segue that told us everything in TED was a dream so Evil Dead 2 could happen?!

...Is it possible for the show to jump the shark twice?!

 

[MaidOfKandar]

Anyway, here's my season post mortem:

What Went Right: The effects, for the most part, looked pretty good this season.  That's a step up.

* Linda was a fresh addition that actually worked and seems to be what they wanted to do with 

* The supporting characters at least managed to be interesting, versus bland like S1Ruby and Amanda.

* There was at least some emotional truth to the Cheryl/Ash/Brock conundrum.  

* Ellen Sandweiss and Ted Raimi owning everything about their parts.

* Most of Pablo's arc seemed to bring his transition into a leading character to fruition finally.

What Went Wrong: The show's biggest problem is this simple fact: they're two seasons in and still haven't figured out how to bend the Evil Dead formula into a series.  They keep producing this show like it's a two-hour movie instead of ten hours of television that should work together coherently.

* Way, way too many extraneous supporting characters no one gives a damn about.  Lacey and The Sheriff were completely unnecessary additions to the cast.  There could have been so much more done with both of them, but it frankly would've been easier had Linda lost them pre-series to a suspicious accident that was Deadite caused.  Would've given her common ground with Ash without a lot of baggage.

* The ruining of Knowby for no reason.

* The fucking nonstop fanservice.  It's fine when you quote musical themes or throw in a line.  But holy shit, the replay of the hot chocolate scene?  Going back to the cabin AGAIN?  

* Baal was a decent villain but he just plain wasn't frightening, and his effect on Ruby was confusingly written.

* Nonsensical character stuff that ruined the emotional impact of scenes.  This includes: Ruby's arc turning into a complete waste of time, Ash being devastated over Pablo but having little reaction to his father and Chet's deaths,  Ash easily re-dispatching his newly Deaditeified sister, 

* So much wheel-churning.  We should not have wasted five episodes on heads up the butt, horny deadite gym teachers and possessed Deltas.

---

For those who still want one, NECA is making an Ashy Slashy puppet, to go on the market in 2017.

 

[Joem1k]

Well, that was a extremely unprofessional interview, well at least we know what happen to craig and tbqh i'm glad his gone that finale sounded interesting for sure with the time travel esque stuff and them trying to avoid young ash but kelly actually becoming ash's biological daughter, seriously Craig? i'm glad he got boot by rob even if rob came off as jerk in this interview he was right in saying "this is not evil dead" Kelly is already a solid character in her own right but they did not need to go that far with her , it reads like a bad fan-fiction in general and it would have just came off as just down right wrong on ash's part overall. TBQH i wanna hear rob's side of the story on this then just Craig's cause to me it sounds like his just trying to paint himself here as the good guy of this situation and making him out to be the dick of this situation whose been around this franchise since the beginning and knows what evil dead is and what isn't.   

I'm glad we got the finale we got instead of whatever Craig decided to plan there, even if the plot holes were plenty and it was a mess of a finale somewhat, i thought it set-up s3 quite nicely and left it open ended for what s3 could be, and i'm gonna be excited to see what mark can do with this overall. 

All in all this whole situation is just sad as all hell and name calling being done here just isn't right in general :/

 

[Muzzlehatch]

Well, that was a extremely unprofessional interview, well at least we know what happen to craig and tbqh i'm glad his gone that finale sounded interesting for sure with the time travel esque stuff and them trying to avoid young ash but kelly actually becoming ash's biological daughter, seriously Craig? i'm glad he got boot by rob even if rob came off as jerk in this interview he was right in saying "this is not evil dead" Kelly is already a solid character in her own right but they did not need to go that far with her , it reads like a bad fan-fiction in general and it would have just came off as just down right wrong on ash's part overall. TBQH i wanna hear rob's side of the story on this then just Craig's cause to me it sounds like his just trying to paint himself here as the good guy of this situation and making him out to be the dick of this situation whose been around this franchise since the beginning and knows what evil dead is and what isn't.   

I'm glad we got the finale we got instead of whatever Craig decided to plan there, even if the plot holes were plenty i thought it set-up s3 quite nicely and left it open ended for what s3 could be, and i'm gonna be excited to see what mark can do with this overall. 

All in all this whole situation is just sad as all hell and name calling being done here just isn't right in general :/

As you all might know I was not the biggest fan of Craig's raunchy comedy approach and I haven't seen the finale yet. But throwing away an ending that was built up during the whole season and at least followed a general logic in favour of some mind blowing garbage? That's an whole new level of incompetence demonstrated by Rob here. I highly doubt that all the show's weakneses just were caused by Craig.

 

[Joem1k]

Well, that was a extremely unprofessional interview, well at least we know what happen to craig and tbqh i'm glad his gone that finale sounded interesting for sure with the time travel esque stuff and them trying to avoid young ash but kelly actually becoming ash's biological daughter, seriously Craig? i'm glad he got boot by rob even if rob came off as jerk in this interview he was right in saying "this is not evil dead" Kelly is already a solid character in her own right but they did not need to go that far with her , it reads like a bad fan-fiction in general and it would have just came off as just down right wrong on ash's part overall. TBQH i wanna hear rob's side of the story on this then just Craig's cause to me it sounds like his just trying to paint himself here as the good guy of this situation and making him out to be the dick of this situation whose been around this franchise since the beginning and knows what evil dead is and what isn't.   

I'm glad we got the finale we got instead of whatever Craig decided to plan there, even if the plot holes were plenty i thought it set-up s3 quite nicely and left it open ended for what s3 could be, and i'm gonna be excited to see what mark can do with this overall. 

All in all this whole situation is just sad as all hell and name calling being done here just isn't right in general :/

As you all might know I was not the biggest fan of Craig's raunchy comedy approach and I haven't seen the finale yet. But throwing away an ending that was built up during the whole season and at least followed a general logic in favour of some mind blowing garbage? That's an whole new level of incompetence demonstrated by Rob here. I highly doubt that all the show's weakneses just were caused by Craig.

At this point i wanna hear rob's side of the argument overall, I'm glad craig was honest here but the way he went about it was just unprofessional in my eyes.

 

[MaidOfKandar]

Modified my language just slightly on my response; Joe's right.

And I think you're both right On one hand, Craig comes off as angry that his pet character wasn't used in the way he wanted her to be used and unprofessional in using his conflict with Rob to make himself look better.

On the other hand, if this is true, then Rob deconstructed a season of planning just to snub someone he hates.

(And then there's the middle point: the idea of Ash being Kelly's dad wrecks Kelly's character and makes their relationship quasi-incestuous in hindsight. Also ruining Pablo and Kelly's friendship so he can be jealous of her and presumably turn bad out of jealousy of her is a terrible idea).

I think the ultimate truth is going to end up being somewhere in the middle - maybe Craig pulled out when Rob edited his script so he re-wrote the whole thing (and ended up side-slighting the original person who wrote it).

 

[Joem1k]

@Missy 

Sooo....i just saw dana liked your tweets about the finale being a mess plus the twitter thanking you for the feedback so it makes me wonder if bruce and the rest of the cast weren't happy with how things went down between rob and Craig and that finale in general.

 

[MaidOfKandar]

Oh my God - I honestly didn't notice until you told me (I don't pay attention to my Twitter between seasons).

Bruce is going to be diplomatic as hell about this - I wouldn't be shocked if he's on Rob's side, but I imagine he just wants this to go away.  But Rob was honest about not liking season one and I bet he won't be diplomatic about season 2 on commentary.

Wow, Dana's pulling no punches.

 

[MaidOfKandar]

ETA, according to Bruce in this EW review, the watchword for season 3 is

Spoiler

Mytharc. We're supposed to find out why Ash was picked to be the promised one.  

...I really don't want the new EP dictating things that're that important.  Maybe Sam will have a heavier hand in this?